Wardec Then Log :(

[Donnachadh]

Black Pedro the entirety of the war dec aspect of the game is nothing but a display of mine is bigger than yours, there is cowardice displayed by both sides, and both sides are guilty of hypocrisy of the highest order possible.

War dec players rail on about forcing people to undock to fight, yet whenever the odds are stacked against them they simply turn turtle and dock up and log off.

War dec players rail on about how unfair it is to use alts to dodge a war dec, then turn around and use alts so they are not bothered by the hassles of the very war they declared.

As you point out in a precious post war dec players make extensive use of alts as neutral spotters so they can be sure that the characters in the corp that filed the war dec are not online until the moment when odds are in their favor and a quick kill can be made and then log off again and this is accepted as the normal way of things. And yet when the defenders use alts as spotters etc they are called out for being cowards.

@Black_Pedro

I do care though if you come to the forums swinging your genitals around calling people cowards for not undocking and fighting you or whatever from behind the safety of an anonymous alt.

I find this interesting, War dec players come here all the time swinging their genitals as you say and calling people cowards for not un-docking to fight and you never call them out in this way, why?

[Kira_Hhallas]

I think we all know about the problems with the wardec System.
there would be a simple solution. Show the wartagets on the starmap for the defenders

The agressor have to search there Targets, the defender has the Advantage in this Point.

my 2 Cent. And sorry for my bad english…

[Black_Pedro]

@Donnachadh

I find this interesting, War dec players come here all the time swinging their genitals as you say and calling people cowards for not un-docking to fight and you never call them out in this way, why?

Because they post with their mains. I love it when people call out, challenge or otherwise interact on these forums over stuff that happens in game. This forums used to have much more of this, long, long ago before my time, but all that interplay was moderated off the forums and migrated to reddit or so the story goes. C&P was one of the last bastions of that, and even there it seems to have mostly faded away.

I don’t ever recall ever seeing it, but if you can point to a post from a wardeccer mocking a war target for not undocking from behind an anonymous alt, I’ll be happy to join in with you and ridicule them for their cowardice.

If you are going to talk the talk, you have to show us you can walk the walk by identifying who you are in-game. Otherwise, you are just another blow-hard pretender wasting all of our time. If you aren’t willing to back up what is coming out of your mouth in-game, then keep the discussion out-of-game like most of the discussions that go on here. There is no need to tell us how tough you imagine you are if you are too scared to accept the possible consequences of such bluster.

[yellow_parasol]

@Black_Pedro

There is no need to tell us how tough you imagine you are if you are too scared to accept the possible consequences of such bluster.

Serious question, which just sprung up in my mind, because of context:
do logon traps with suicide ganking alts count as backing it up, when someone is being called out?

like…

• someone calls me out
• i accept
• we meet
• i let him grind through my tank
• i warp alts in
• i fry his ass
• i win

Genuinely curious if there is something actually frowned upon, even by the “worst”.

[Quelza]

There’s no real counterplay to that. Vigilant monitoring of d-scan or local won’t clue them in until it’s far too late. It’s kind of scummy.

But the kind of scummy I can respect (the “well played, you got me” kind), because this is EVE. It’s also the kind of trick that should only work once, if they’re smart.

[Keno_Skir]

@CODE_Watcher

How about you post your API before requesting people post their mains, hmm?

No that’s ok API’s are personal. As requested please post with your main so we can take you seriously. Mains are only personal when you’re acting in a way you don;t want associated with your main, and who wants to talk to that guy huh?

[Baba_Ji]

Which is more important? The message or the identity of the messenger.
One should always consider the source of the message,however it isn’t an imperative,to understanding the message.

Some feel the necessity to place other’s in their pecking order. I guess its human nature to do so,as it affirms their desired position in society.

The op was to CCP though as we see they haven’t responded. Unless…

@Black_Pedro

Trying to call out someone to the field of battle while hiding yourself only makes you look pitiful and weak.

The Art of War might actually contradict this quote or it might endorse it. Pov would need consideration to make a determination.

[Lady_Ayeipsia]

The OP seems to operate under the assumption that the deccers want an active engagement. This probably isn’t the case nor has it ever been required to be.

The deccers have a plan or goal. It could be they want to lull you into a false sense of safety,
They could be looking for one specific member of your corp/allisnce. They want to engage legally in hi sec but only against that one person. Nothing wrong with that either. They could operate in a hi sec island and decay who pass through but only fight in that pocket.

So really, just because you don’tike their method or action, doesn’t make it wrong.

Heck it could even be a merc corp hired by your own corp to see if everyone is following whatever your standard dec procedures are.

[yellow_parasol]

@Lady_Ayeipsia

Heck it could even be a merc corp hired by your own corp to see if everyone is following whatever your standard dec procedures are.

True! He should attack hie corpmates just to be sure!

[Sere_O_Asis]

I don’t know the specifics of your situation.

As I can’t look the involved corps up, the best I can do is give you a couple of generic answers, which may or may not apply to your specific situation, but will certainly apply to some situations, as outlined by your post.

A small 15 character corp that war decs may war dec, as you describe, because their membership (the actual players) have busy lives and cannot log in as a group on a regular basis; yet, leadership, or the members collectively, want to maintain access to the possibility of content when individual members can log in, so they finance a sufficient number of wars, which in their estimation, will provide content for when they do/can log in.

As to the number of war decs specifically, the more wars you can pay for the better the odds you will find war targets. In this scenario, your wallet is the limiting factor on the number of wars.

The second scenario that comes to mind, which would fit your situation is a grievance.

A member of your corp may have irritated/infuriated someone, in game, who cannot personally war dec for political/diplomatic/or some other reason, but can either hire help, or has friends in the corp that did war dec you. In this case, leadership may not even know why they were asked to war dec you, they just know they’re helping out a friend or someone’s friend, and providing content to their membership.

A third explanation for the situation you’ve outlined, which is not likely but is a possible reason, is they war dec, and maintain war decs at all times because 1) they can afford to do so, and 2) they only play EVE occasionally, but when their group can find time to play EVE, they want to be able to jump into the action right then…not 24 hours later.

In the three answers I’ve provided, these actions could have been taken by either vets or newbros, as the only limiting factors is the size of their wallet and the amount of time the group has to play EVE either together, or separately.

The group that war decced your corp may simply be trying to provide an opportunity for pvp content to their membership, when, and as, their members can log in to play EVE, which may be only on the rare occasion and not a nightly, or weekly, or even monthly event.

And yes, though rare, there are groups like that out there.

[Black_Pedro]

@yellow_parasol

Serious question, which just sprung up in my mind, because of context:

do logon traps with suicide ganking alts count as backing it up, when someone is being called out?

I think that counts. You have done something and defended your honour. You may have defined yourself as a ‘dirty player’ with such tactics, but you have backed up your talk with action. Some will judge you clever, some dishonourable and contemptible, but none can denied you played the game. You have separated yourself from those that are only talk and we can go from there.

[Donnachadh]

@Black_Pedro

I think that counts. You have done something and defended your honour. You may have defined yourself as a ‘dirty player’ with such tactics, but you have backed up your talk with action. Some will judge you clever, some dishonourable and contemptible, but none can denied you played the game. You have separated yourself from those that are only talk and we can go from there.

Historically (think real world here not in game) one is considered to be a coward and to be completely lacking honor if they were to respond with the real world equivalent of a log in trap. Yet here in game such things are considered to be normal behavior and perfectly acceptable actions. No this is not a complaint it is simply an observation.

Black Pedro, you asked for a point towards those who call out defenders in a war dec as cowards claiming you have never seen such a thing. On the old forums how many topics were started over the years about defenders that will not un-dock during a war, and how many ideas were posted on ways to force defenders to un-dock and fight or simply die because they do not want to fight but were forced to un-dock. You would be correct these topics and the war dec players in them were not specifically calling others cowards, none the less the message was and still is crystal clear. That you cannot see this or choose not to acknowledge it does not mean it did not or does not exist.

[Black_Pedro]

@Donnachadh

That you cannot see this or choose not to acknowledge it does not mean it did not or does not exist.

I’m happy to acknowledge they exist but I can’t recall an example. Perhaps you would be kind enough to link me one or two of the “many” topics from anonymous forum alts complaining that their war targets were too cowardly to undock and fight them.

People suggest dumb ideas like those all the time, and I pretty consistently have told them how stupid an idea it is to force people to undock, or even force them to stay in a corporation at war. As long as they don’t try to call out their targets as cowards, that is just a discussion of game mechanics which means it’s just their bad ideas that need to be shot down, not them personally mocked.

But I still have no recollection of war aggressor going to the forums beating their chest about their war targets being too scared to fight them or whatever while hiding behind an anonymous forum alt. If it happened, and I somehow missed a chance to mock and deride them, I am truly disappointed.

[Joan_Aivo]

Apologies for naive question. The thread author mentioned that they “have eyes” on all the members of aggressor alliance and continuously monitor their online status.

With change of buddy list mechanics - how’s it done now?

[Black_Pedro]

@Joan_Aivo

Apologies for naive question. The thread author mentioned that they “have eyes” on all the members of aggressor alliance and continuously monitor their online status.

With change of buddy list mechanics - how’s it done now?

It isn’t. The only way, and I doubt his group did this is to use locators on each of their members, and park alts in system 24/7. That might work if they were all in one place but…

Hmm. Good point. Maybe his group doesn’t know that the buddy list doesn’t actually work anymore. at least not as it did before? That red dot it shows when the person is not your friend is a little misleading as it might lead you to believe they are off-line all the time.

Seems unlikely though. The claim is probably just posturing and hyperbole like much of the rest of his post.

[Keno_Skir]

@Black_Pedro

That red dot it shows when the person is not your friend is a little misleading as it might lead you to believe they are off-line all the time.

Think you’re onto something there.

[Ralph_King-Griffin]

soo to sum up

gets dec’d ,

attacker cant find him because reasons

complains

…

[Zanziba_ar]

I might be wrong here but when they where redoing the crime system (of which’s name escapes me) Didn’t they say something about updating wars? I thought wars where going to enable objectives so that you could “win” as the defender or attacker, Or was this decided to be in conflict with the sandbox? I suppose it is in conflict to be fair and they did add those war reports so there is that. I personally don’t care either way, If someone wardecs you it really shouldn’t prevent you doing anything, Try to keep tabs on them with scouts and continue about your business I reckon.

[Ralph_King-Griffin]

that was Retribution
back in 2012.

[Your_Ex-Girlfriend]

Just because you don’t know how to play the game does not mean others are “gaming the system.”

Besides making you come to forums to cry and whine, what exactly are they doing wrong?

Where’s the rule that says they HAVE to fight you if they wardec you? After all, it’s their ISK they spent on the wardec, what they do with the product is 100% up to them.