Welcome your new CSM

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Lydia_Kruger

38 086 votes, but on the screen which show the votes/country the total of votes is …31 630 ? May be i did a mistake on the calculation ?

Sorry for that this is my professional deformation …

The total number of ballots cast is the 38,086. This can result in a lower number of votes if ballots get exhausted because no one on the ballot earned the vote through the STV.

@Jehle

You would be wrong. Programs were run to turn isk into votes. It is a FACT that rich groups create burner accounts to vote for the CSM. Largely null.

No, it’s not. The biggest groups have the most people, they don’t need to create fake accounts and plex/pay for them to win. There are votes for sale, but those are largely from skillpoint farmers who already have omega accounts. It’s far easier to cut deals and buy votes from skill point farmers than it is to set up accounts 60 days before the election and pay $15 each or plex them.

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Jehle

You would be wrong. Programs were run to turn isk into votes. It is a FACT that rich groups create burner accounts to vote for the CSM. Largely null.

You know, I’m happy that someone else said it, because I wasn’t going to since I’m genuinely concerned about my accounts getting whacked at this point.

Aside from being a dumb anime-loving fake adult, I do the whole “financial analysis” thing to pay for my hovel and cat food (I don’t own a cat), and when I see indicators like this…

It really makes me go …

Exactly a month before the polls opened.

So much so that I use these elections as an investment opportunity. You can reliably make a few billion every time just by camping PLEX market orders for a few minutes. I wasn’t going to mention this before, but I don’t care anymore. I don’t need the ISK anyway.

@Jehle

I hadn’t thought about it until now, but I pet this problem is largely aggravated by the ability to go omega for less than 30 days. I bet it’s way cheaper to turn isk into CSM members than we would think.

Actually, it’s free. If you set up Alpha accounts so that they hit 5,000,000 SP with enough Omega lead time before the polls open, you can farm the SP and make your money back. And if you time it just right with the reward campaign events, you get quite a bit extra on top of that. Capsuleer day yielded 425,000 SP plus a bunch of SoE ships.

This is exactly what I did with my (albeit small) SP farm.

@bluelysian

i have sadly read these… the way you had answered and give a “real democracy” lessons to @Destiny_Corrupted

Sorry, but I’m not touching that with a ten-foot pole.

I literally got my first and only real ban by getting into an argument with that person (aside from that one time I got a short time-out because I told the broken-English “COVID psychologist” that he was a ■■■■■■■ idiot after he said that it’s “just a flu” and that vaccines are government mind-control serum or something like that).

Middle-of-the-night Blackhawk helicopter batphone-style. Not even the shadow people in my recurring, millennial existential crisis-driven nightmares have that kind of power. As far as I’m concerned, democracy is exactly what he says it is, just please don’t hurt me, mister. I don’t want to lose access to my accounts. Not until CCP finishes destroying their own game and I get to sell them for beer money, at least.

I noticed that my post at the beginning of the thread kind of blew up. I don’t know whether I should be more surprised that so many more people agree than those who try to bury it, or that CCP hasn’t deleted it for “attacking a developer” or whatever.

They’re probably going to collectively punish us with “interesting” game changes for not buying into their system. I can only imagine how their board meetings are going right now.

[Jehle]

Thats just a better version of doing it yourself.

Market prices do show some evidence towards skill point farms being spooled up for the purposes of casting a vote. Whether or not that vote is sold is irrelevant.

2 months before Plex reverses into an upturn, skill extractors reverse into an upturn, and skill injectors begin a down turn as expected.

I did a bunch of crappy math and you can buy your own seat on the CSM for about 6.5 trillion isk. That gets you 2592 votes from accounts you plexed yourself. Now just find 2592 accounts that already exist for other reasons (Skill trading, they’re in a highsec corp that could care less) and buy a vote for pennies on the dollar you’ve drastically reduced your prices to 260 billion at 100 million per vote. That isn’t even two titans now-a-days.

[Jehle]

To me it seems like it hurts the “democratically” part of the “democratically elected” claim. Is there a market for buying votes? I can only imagine that CSM members or their associates are contacted directly by the sellers. If it was out in the open we could study it or something.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Jehle

Thats just a better version of doing it yourself.

Market prices do show some evidence towards skill point farms being spooled up for the purposes of casting a vote. Whether or not that vote is sold is irrelevant.

2 months before Plex reverses into an upturn, skill extractors reverse into an upturn, and skill injectors begin a down turn as expected.

I did a bunch of crappy math and you can buy your own seat on the CSM for about 6.5 trillion isk. That gets you 2592 votes from accounts you plexed yourself. Now just find 2592 accounts that already exist for other reasons (Skill trading) and buy a vote for pennies on the dollar you’ve drastically reduced your prices to 260 billion at 100 million per vote. That isn’t even two titans now-a-days.

That’s the point - you can absolutely buy votes. That’s not unheard of, and it’s not frowned upon either. But the setting up of burner accounts is way more work than necessary. Vily said on TIS that he was offered 2000 votes at 100 mil a pop, but didn’t buy any. I’ve never had an offer made to me, but I don’t have the liquid isk (or the need) to buy votes even if I didn’t find the concept abhorrent.

I don’t think it really hurts the “democratically” part, because, at best, maybe one or two seats could be influenced in this way.

[Jehle]

I’m struggling myself with whether it’s “bad” enough to deserve more effort from those who can make the changes. I don’t have the most faith in the CSM program in the first place.

1 - 2 seats seems like a huge amount to me.

[Brisc_Rubal]

I only know for sure one person who bought votes who was successful in getting elected. We’ve suspected others who didn’t win who’ve done it, but I can’t say for sure it was done. In the end, it’s not really worth it for 95% of candidates, so they don’t tend to do it.

CCP has no issues with it - it’s been condoned. Regardless, I don’t think it has a huge impact one way or the other.

[Wadiest_Yong]

“Welcome your new CSM”

Welcome, new CSM, and congratulations to all who got selected.

It looks like it’s going to be quite a rough ride, even compared to last year, as I am sure most of you are aware. Good luck to you, and may your ammo hit target, volley that scarcity off the grid, and help boost that PCU.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Lucas_Kell

Look, the same thing happens every year. Roughly the same group of people get voted ins, loads of people complain and are told by null shills to be quiet, and eventually they do. CCP then listens to the CSM makes the game less appealing to new players and better for already rich veterans, then the whole things loops back round again.

+1.
Well said.

I think the original idea of CSM was that CCP could get feedback from “big parts of the game”.
In all honesty, that idea is out the window.
CCP should just elect the CSM themself like “whose ideas could be worth listening to?”

@Moriar_theChosen

Quit asking CCP to ‘fix’ things for you when you can play the way you want.

No. i cannot play the way i want.

@Lucas_Kell

I don’t really play these days though. Log in, change some orders about, resetsome indy orders, logoff. Repeat next month. I had some vague hope that they were going to actually move towards improving the game a couple of years back but that hope has all dried up.

lol, same mate.

@Lucas_Kell

I really don’t know who is paying actual money for this game though. Like really, that’s quite insane.

nah, it’s not insane thou, it’s hopeful and tbh there are still some good parts of this game left…
I think people pay real money because they have real money to spend on whatever this is.
also the isk-grind is unsettling these days.
People come back because they made friends they want to keep playing with. But tbh, those gangs of friends would have a better time in another game.

it’s really a shame ccp spent a fortune trying to branch out, and failed (duuh) and have to make up for it with microtransactions. That’s the really insane part.

@Moriar_theChosen

Also, CSM is not the only way to influence the community and the devs.

Nah, but its where the real action is, they sit in a room and discuss things. and actully get ■■■■ done. Doing so on these forums is a death sentence.
the other way i see is writing a"grown up" broad essay with facts and ‘cause and effect’ proof is just… yeah i dont find it fun, i guess i rather see this game die than carry it to pc gamers best game of the year.

do you have any other suggestion on how a person can influence ccp? cause i think your full of it.

[Moriar_theChosen]

You’re just baiting a forum argument so you can say you were right to quit 20 times. Move on with your life.

CCP, please don’t let these people get you down. So many of us out here love the game and the work you’re putting into it!

[Hug_Motsu]

I havent quit the game… and im not baiting a forum argument. Im sorry that you feel offended and triggerd by me expressing my opinions.

also please, for the sake of an discussion.
name 3 “lovable” things ccp has done in the past 2 years?

or better yet. Please do describe your claims;
someone outside of the csm can affect eve online/ccp?

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Hug_Motsu

name 3 “lovable” things ccp has done in the past 2 years?

• the marauder buffs (I know, I was disappointed about the paladin, I was wrong)
• fleet formations
• absolutely loved the triglavian invasions (i know, controversial with some)
• new changes to covops (scanning/scouting) and the new fleet jump on blops
• … the removal of the red dots, lol (thanks again, Brisc)

[Hug_Motsu]

@Wadiest_Yong

• he marauder buffs (I know, I was disappointed about the paladin, I was wrong)
• absolutely loved the triglavian invasions (i know, controversial with some)

marauders buff was very nice I would agree with you…
I’ve even trained marauder V because of it.

but, well, as I say: “HELLZZZYEEE 3k DPS 3k ehp/s paladin pew-pew” .
I wonder, where and why should I fly my new imba marauder?
Abyssals and well tbh I haven’t experienced the trig invasion, I find it to be inaccessible to me, so i don’t know…

at least I’ve got my abyssal, but IDK…? even if they were good fun and a very welcome timepass/distraction at first… now ccp introduced instagib rng-equations… so now it’s not a timepast/distraction anymore. It’s hard work and a fair amount of luck. (the house always wins… that’s not fun for me)

tl;dr Yeah CCP introduces new better things but then nerf other related things…? so… are they even doing anything progressive??

[Moriar_theChosen]

@CSM

I know CCP needs to change its income models, video games have changed so much and subscriptions don’t make as much sense in a free-to-play ecosystem and all. I’m all for monetizing stuff. Gimme SKINS!

Maybe the merch store could become something really great and profitable. Right now, I can’t even get a Minmatar shirt in my size.

Have a design contest for each quadrant theme, make t-shirts and mugs, donate 10% of the profits to a charity. Rinse and repeat. Over time, build an awesome set of Eve Gear in that store.

Just thinking out loud, if it seems like it makes sense, please pass it on.

[Wadiest_Yong]

@Hug_Motsu

Yeah CCP introduces new better things but then nerf other related things…? so… are they even doing anything progressive??

The way I see it : they introduce a variety of changes, mostly related to ships, taking here, giving there, so that even people with all-around skills can discover new and even rediscover old stuff (the adjust and adapt approach). The downside of that (which we all experience at some point) is that it may throw a curve ball and mess up our current plans (or even make us spend more isk to switch to other ships). I’m usually okay with all that, but am concerned about the ecosystem changes which affect the game deeply and, I think, with poorly controlled long term outcome overall (health of the game MUST include number of players, of course) and poor predictability.

Progressive ? It’s in the changes as such, in not being a stagnant game production hence boring. I don’t want to imply that change is always good (that’s just manipulative bs), or that all changes are good. The fact that most of us keep moaning about the changes is a case in point that the game is anything but stagnant. Of course there’s also progression in the technical aspects of the game, the artwork in EvE still being one of its strongholds, the servers being able to establish reasonable TiDi under extreme load. We’ve come a long way in that respect.

@Hug_Motsu

I haven’t experienced the trig invasion

That’s a pity. During chapter I even a (focused) alpha character could run the emerging conduits. And they were highly lucrative too.

@Hug_Motsu

where and why should I fly my new imba marauder?

Start with lvl 4’s in hisec (but keep an eye on dscan and don’t mess up your advantage of being hard to combat probe while in bastion mode by deploying an MTU )

[Ploing]

@Wadiest_Yong

… the removal of the red dots, lol (thanks again, Brisc)

so all they have to do is introducing bs and remove it later.

[Wadiest_Yong]

Dude, my coffee went the wrong way

[Alice_Tawate]

Welcome my still old CSM|
#CCPLS maybe same person can only do max 2 years? no longer then 2 term.

[Cade102]

Lost your ship?
No problem!
Losing your first ship is just the beginning - it’s an initiation every pilot goes through.
Recover your loss & get revenge!
110 PLEX to exchange for millions of isk
Spend isk on ships, weapons & more
Come back stronger & better!
€4.99

[Hug_Motsu]

@Wadiest_Yong

The way I see it : they introduce a variety of changes, mostly related to ships, taking here, giving there, so that even people with all-around skills can discover new and even rediscover old stuff (the adjust and adapt approach).

tl;dr. in the name of starvation ccp has only managed to strangle my fun/hr, not my isk/hr.

The past year, I think you’d agree with me that they take a lot more than they have given all in the name of “starvation period”, this could be a good thing… but in reality, I don’t feel like it is a good thing because the starvation period only affects poor/new players?
I haven’t really pve’d more than to try fits etc, and my networth has risen even though I buy 1-1.5k plex/month.
(I wonder if CSM is a part of that biased starvation… anyway… in reality, starvation period = pulling the ladder up from the top of the isk)

@Wadiest_Yong

Progressive ? It’s in the changes as such, in not being a stagnant game production hence boring.

tl;dr. Boring can be a good thing aswell.

I’m not too sure about this, I understand what you are saying and I can agree with you.
but at the same time… I really do think there is beauty in the “tedious grind”. It’s a conduit for spending time and getting a little reward as well, its “progression” on another scale.
Please note: I’m obviously a sorta gamer who cherish “hack n’ slash” games like Diablo and all other types of “brain breaks” like Sudoku, Tetris… you name it.

@Wadiest_Yong

Start with lvl 4’s in hisec (but keep an eye on dscan and don’t mess up your advantage of being hard to combat probe while in bastion mode by deploying an MTU

I’ve actually been thinking a lot of go live in high sec/low sec, solely so I can experience other parts of eve like missions and arc and…?? idk, what else… but then I remember I’ve already got alot of concord lp points that I can’t even bother to exchange for goods and items… so, perhaps I’ll go farm pirate faction lp - but then again, those regions are “owned” / “hell camped” by pirates, I think?