To be honest since L4 missions are the peak of highsec PVE for most they should be highly challenging. To the tune of maybe a 35% survival rate of any ship on each mission. Rats should have sleeper/trig AI, minimum of 25+ scrambling frigs, rotating damage types, ewar etc. It should be a blood pumping excersize for the super high rewards they pay out.
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I was going to suggest a reactive hardener. No stacking penalty when used with regular hardeners.
You could get rid of one kinetic hardener instead of a heat sink. Serps are weighted towards therm damage.
So what we can conclude is that the missions aren’t harder per se, but that everyone gets a little less isk/hour.
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It was eventually changed after a few months. It was part of the “New Frontiers” mission series. Something like number 4 or 5 of 7 in the series.
Well, yes. I’m not arguing they should be easy.
What was fun to do before, was buddy missions, where 2 or more players would do these kinds of missions, because together, they could clear missions a lot faster. That’s what I’d do for the epic arc missions. Get a bunch of people together, blast through them. It’s fun, and a lot more engaging than doing them yourself.
So, this might be a good thing, if it means people are more inclined to use teamwork.
My point all along was, that a fairly normal mission setup for a battleship, that used to work at low skill levels, will no longer work, even at high skill levels. So, there’s been quite an impact on pve, in my opinion.
Pretty much, yes. The easier missions, there’s practically no change. Only a few missions, like “Blockade”, will the change be particularly noticeable.
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Have even done the very easy missions like Smash the Supplier or Enemies Abound series and no noticeable change. Still as easy/afk as before.
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Irrelevant to this particular round. What happened a couple years back isn’t what we’re dealing with now.
I disagree entirely. In Smash the Supplier I had to swap my usual stasis grappler for a large cap battery. This humiliation will not be allowed to stand!
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Disagree. Marauders have always been the best mission ship and have never even come close to losing that status. When the only meaningful risk in PvE is suicide ganking a marauder moves a ton of the power into the hull (which can’t be looted) instead of the modules (which can). A marauder can match the performance of a gank-magnet faction ship with a basic T2 fit and be a completely unappealing target.
And coincidentally marauders come out the big winners of this change, keeping their tank intact while other ships have to dump even more cash into modules to keep up.
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in any case its one of the easiest L4 missions around so there is nothing to worry about with resist reductions.
Disagree. Lots of 2 slot tanked marauder fits are in serious trouble with this change, while the fits less tightly optimized for utility/damage/application slots are much less effected and need more bling to not lose significant isk/hr vs. blitzing machs or other faction battleships in large part due to their abysmally low for t2 base resists. A chip up to the next resist step with no other changes would do a lot to alleviate this slot pressure increase with cheap fits.
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I was referring to the crowd that claims “[Favorite Faction Battleship] runs Lv4’s just as or more effectively than T2 Battleships and therefore why should I spend the time to skill up Marauders?!?!”, who tend to be loud and try to advise newcomers against skilling Marauders. Of which the very long train times for T2 Battleship AND T2 Large Turrets (T2 Turrets not necessary, but very nice!) did discourage many players. However, I have always known that Marauders have much more to offer in PvE content than just what’s on paper dps and such, for the reasons you stated.
Otherwise, I completely agree with your post.
the pirate battleships perform the same or better than marauders in lvl 4 missions imho , a nightmare for example is a nice amarr option , the marauder is like a Cadillac , you don’t get it for the speed but for the comfort 
That is exactly how I felt when I stepped into my first Kronos, like a Cadillac! But a lot of people forget about it’s more recent plush options. Near immunity from ewar by using Bastion, increasing efficiency for those really annoying missions that spam ecm, damps, etc…
Plus the bonuses to damage application using short range weapons is phenomenal and not really acknowledged when viewing stats on “paper“. In these regards, Marauders are more efficient than pirate battleships, especially if you consider full clears, which Marauders have the utility slots and bonuses to assist MTU and salvage drones with tractor and salvager, making kill and loot/salvage in one go very easy and efficient.
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Yep! Another Pirate Battleship fan! *shakes fist*
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That something that was not the best tool for the job and always on the edge a bit before the changes may no longer work after the changes is totally normal and expected. Of course if your tank was on the edge before the changes, it may no longer be enough afterwards. Of course you’ll have to adapt in those cases. Nothing CCP wasn’t already fully aware of when they decided to make those changes…
LOL. Are you using your example to “prove” that the changes may have a significant impact on the ability of some players to run missions, or are you complaining that you’ll have to adapt (as expected), or what exactly is the point of your post?
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CAN I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!
I HAVE JUST RECEIVED AN E-MAIL
FROM THE ANONYMOUS RAW EVE GENERAL MANAGER!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAND
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
QUOTE!
Dear PvE people,
your concerns about the future of PvE have been heard. We have been thinking about it long and hard and we consider that concessions need to be made for all of those starved of good PvE, so we decided to give you good PvE. We will give you the best PvE! We will give you the most dangerous PvE!
We will turn highsec systems into lowsec systems if you don’t manage to beat the PvE!
You’re ■■■■■■■ welcome!
This is Spanish for “good riddance”, right?
If only those cheapskates at CCP would give us some free skillpoints, or something…
Why can’t people think, and realise that half the point of a patch like this is to shake up the meta in terms of fits. People’s old fits are no longer as viable as they once were, it’s not the first time CCP has done this and it’s up to us as players to innovate our way around it.
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And why can’t people realize that shaking for the sake of shaking is a bad thing ? You know what would shake things ? That you lose everything you have ! If you want to shake things that much, just biomass your characters.
In Eve there is a thing called “investment”. People invest their time in order to have thing. You are not shaking them, you are effectively destroying a part of that investment. That’s what you don’t want to see, “shaking” is a stupid concept, and actually it’s a loss of investment in a game that promotes investment and long-term strategies.
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