What do miners think of bots?

I simply don’t have any fondness for highsec miners. Personally, I just find them easy to dislike. Even apart from what they actually do , their presence has always irritated me. I suppose you could say that I have a natural prejudice against them.

When I examine the phenomenon of the highsec miner, I put all of that aside. Do I despise them? Absolutely. But am I able to be completely objective? Hell yes! In studying the highsec miner, I am essentially a neutral party, as my hatred of the miners becomes a non-factor.

My objective analysis of the highsec miners has concluded that my prejudice against them is well-founded. They do deserve the disgust that people feel for them.

Highsec mining operations are crawling with botters. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. And nobody knows it better than the human miners. They mine together day in and day out, side by side. Thick as thieves.

Allow me to make one thing perfectly clear to the humans who mine in highsec: We suicide gankers will make no distinction between the botters and those who harbor them.

Whenever I tell a highsec miner this, I always get the same response. They whine that they would never help a bot, and surely if they ever saw one, they would immediately report the bot to CCP. So please, please , they say, leave the human miners alone.

Uh… No. I don’t think so.

Of course the highsec miners harbor the bots. They camouflage them. They act as human shields. If it weren’t for human players mining in highsec, the remainder would be known botters, and would be instantly banned. But worst of all, highsec miners contribute to an institutional system and culture that legitimizes botting.

As a matter of fact, I’d go so far as to say that all of the miners in highsec are bots. Even the ones who aren’t running any bots or macros. The human miners are bots, and they deserve to be treated like it.

Imagine it were possible to remove a very small piece of the human brain and replace it with an advanced piece of technology. This equipment is so advanced that it can completely take over the functions of the removed portion of the brain–so much so that the person is unaware of any change. Now suppose a second small area of the brain were likewise replaced by machine, and so on. Bit by bit, the brain is replaced by a computer. At what point do we say that the person is no longer human, but a machine? That the mind no longer exists?

You see, the dirty little secret about the human miners is that, in everything they do, they aspire to become bots. Like the bots, they automate all of their activities as much as possible. Everything they do is to maximize the time they spend AFK. If you listen to them, they take great pride in being elsewhere, doing other things. They think it’s cool to be AFK.

Now for a second thought experiment, one which I hope will end all doubt as to whether the highsec miner should be condemned:

What if CCP made it legal to use bots for mining? What if they made these macros and botting scripts freely available? What percentage of the highsec miners would use them?

The answer is obvious. Every single highsec miner, 100% of them, would use the programs and become bots. There’s not a single miner in highsec who would continue to mine manually. The only reason there are any human miners in highsec is that they’re afraid of getting banned. They want to be bots, every last one of them.

They’re guilty .

Now let’s turn it around. What if it were permissible to use a bot that enabled a suicide ganker to kill a miner while the ganker was AFK? Would they use it, or would a ganker still want to be at his computer to pull the trigger himself?

Once again the answer is obvious. The suicide ganker, unlike the highsec miner, wants to actually play the game. They want to experience the kill. They want to be involved in Eve.

That’s the fundamental difference between the highsec miner and the suicide ganker. The gankers are human. The miners are bots. The miners are quite literally less than human. They deserve to be wiped out, every last one of them. To the extent that they still feel anything, it should only be fear, humiliation, and misery.

And that’s not my opinion, mind you, it’s just plain common sense and logic. No one can argue with it.

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Please cite your sources if you’re going to plagiarize large swaths of text verbatim.

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/topic/40762/

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Whichever side you’re on in this debate–whether you hate the highsec miners or totally support them–I think we can all agree that highsec miners are despicable in both their actions and in their intrinsic nature. A highsec miner is fundamentally going to inspire disgust. What they think, the way they feel about things, their attitudes, beliefs, all of it.

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In other words you are disgusted by your own buddies? Interesting and good to know.

TQ_DominantSlaveCommander_AFKMiningLikeCODE

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My friend, those are not highsec miners. That’s a New Order combat operation.

OMGBRBICECREAMTRUCKYUMYUMYUMYUMYUMYUMYUMYUMYUMYUMM.

The commander of that op is a licensed elite slave commander, who directs a state sanctioned activity for the benefit of the shareholders, in conjunction with our Freighter Friends, Dead Frog, and Don’t Bump Me Bro. This operation ensures that gank operations are fully supported by ethically sourced organic natural shade-grown renewable ore. As James 315 said, “Trillions for catalysts, but not one isk for the miners!”

Anyone who purchases shares, available via www.minerbumping.com, is entitled to share in the benefits of this great civilization which James 315 has bestowed upon us! Everyone else is going to get wrecked. :cry:

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Okay, I get this right: James 315 sanctions bot-aspirant and AFK behavior if you pay 10M for a permit. That is good to know, too. :slight_smile:

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Calm down miner, you aren’t a space lawyer.

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I thought they were all space “lawyers”.

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I read about two sentences of this nonsense and my instinct is to take up high sec mining.

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Miners have never really bothered me. I dont go to belts so they dont get in my way. If they are on my dscan then i just remove their ships so i can see them nasty combat scanner probes easier :crazy_face:

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Miners are really as bad as bots. They act the same way. Miner afk all day, as soon as a threat shows up, they run away and dock up. That’s probably the highest their heart rates will get to, adrenaline rushing through because they managed to run away like cowards before getting killed.

On the plus side, when bots get ganked, they just take the loss. When miners get ganked they cry like babies and whine on the forums about how it’s unfair.

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AFK aside, what do you expect them to do in the face of a superior combat force? Just sit there and get shot? You need your free kills that bad?

Doesn’t seem cowardly so much as good sense to me.

I’m anti-AFK as well, so I’m all about you getting your gank on, but really.

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I expect them to take the loss and die like prey being killed by predators. Or at the very least.dock up, reship, and go fight the attackers. Take your lumps and shut up.

The thing I don’t want to see are cowardly crybabies on the forums asking for things like a PDS on Orca, or hiring NPCs to defend them or cloaks on mining ships so they can run away even faster.

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One paragraph and I get my point across easier simply changing two words of the OP.

My opinion, I hate miners as well and the profession but I don’t bother them. But you won’t need a long wall of text to justify your opinion.

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As a high sec miner, I would like to thank the OP for sharing their thoughts/viewpoints of how others choose to play in this sandbox MMO.

I know that PvP is really hard in this game - so providing a target that doesn’t warp away and doesn’t shoot back, can really help give those “less skilled” players a feeling that, they too, can participate in PvP. I’m thrilled that I (and others like myself) have the opportunity to provide such content to CODE, and other high sec gankers, on a recurring basis.

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I think the real question is …

What do bots think of miners?

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What you’re missing is that history is full of those. I mean those who died to others who bested them. The really only difference is that in virtual worlds they don’t actually die in real life, so they can come to forums and complain about how they got bested one way or another.

That’s the true issue. History is filled with people who didn’t get to whine about what happened to them, unlike people like you, who can. Reality is that the modern era is built upon those who killed or stepped onto people like yourself. It’s not people like you who survived, it’s the people who killed and stepped onto those who were unable to compete.

You should be thankful that history isn’t full of people like yourself, otherwise we would have never gotten this far in the first place, so I really think this behaviour of yours is absolutely inadequate.

You’re making yourself look like a moron. Stop doing this. Really. Don’t lower yourself to the levels of those who’se only defense is whining on the internet, crying as soon as they’re not getting what they want and exploding in rage when they’re confronted with the fact that the only reason why they believe they’re great is because they’ve been successfully shielded from those who are better.

Just stop. It’s low, it’s cheap and - holy ■■■■ - it makes you look like a loser.

Do your name some justice.

Thank you. :slight_smile:

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Just to be clear. My post is entirely focused on “in game” space pixels and real life events is outside the scope of what I’ve written.

I don’t take the game too seriously, and my post reflects that. Now, despite the tone of my original post- I actually appreciate ALL play styles in the game (so long as it doesn’t break the EULA)- though I may have some light hearted criticism.

Also, my own skills in game are pretty bad too. I can barely get past lvl 2 security missions, I do mining with a Stratios, the list goes on… so any criticism coming from me should be taken with a grain of salt…

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If you are having fun, you do what you want, EULA not withstanding. I like when people go off the beaten path and do things because ‘hey, why not’. Optimized gameplay can get boring. It does for me, at least.

Many times in my eve career I’ve been told that I could make more isk if I did something else, or that the content I was doing wasn’t worth it because it didn’t pay as well as some other, or that my fit is sub-optimal for the area’s type of rat. It doesn’t occur to people that a high isk/hr isn’t part of my objectives.

I think improving your game is good, and learning about it is also good, but that it doesn’t necessarily follow that you must take part in the meta if you don’t enjoy it. It is a game, it is space pixels, and enjoying your play time is what’s important.

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Setting aside the fact that this is your opinion (if you’re actually presenting what you believe and not just fishing for reactions), you underestimate the sheer contrariness of some people. There are men and women in this world who will argue about literally anything, regardless of logic, evidence, or ironclad proof.

If you said the sky was blue, your friends all said the sky was blue, and anyone with functional eyes could look straight up into a cloudless sky and see that it is, in fact, blue, these people would still argue about it.

Moving on to the question in the title, while I obviously can’t speak for anyone else I can say that I’m not fond of bots. While I did enough hisec mining that I fully understand why people would be tempted to use them, that doesn’t mean I would do it myself or support anyone who used bots.

The arguments I’ve seen for how they negatively affect the health of the game - driving down mineral prices, enabling the proliferation of capital and supercapital ships, etcetera - sound reasonable to me, and I fully support the idea that they need to be curtailed. I also applaud CCP’s efforts to combat them, even as the botters keep coming up with more and more ways to evade detection. I can only wish them the best of luck in an effort that Sisyphus himself could probably relate to, as well as hope they don’t burn out in the process.

The day we really need to ask that question is the day AIs will have joined humanity in cyberspace, at which point we’ll be dealing with tougher questions, like if banning someone who is at times indistinguishable from a bot because they’re not limited by the reaction times of us meatbags is a form of racial discrimination.

So is mining, which is why I support the idea of making it a more engaging activity because ho. ly. frak. It’s monotonous, tedious, and the only excitement to be had comes from NPCs or players who interrupt me when I’m doing it rather than the activity being engaging in and of itself, which I think is a real problem that needs fixing alongside all the other game mechanics people are complaining about.

I’d probably have gone crazy if the people in my corp weren’t good for conversation, so I can only imagine what it’s like for players who don’t have anyone to talk to.