He asked if new players coming in and blowing stuff up was ever a dynamic.
You said your ability to do so was engaging for you. But it ended.
So it was a dynamic?
Have i taken that out of context?
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No, I can’t tell you who I think your leaders are. I don’t think about such things. I would have to actually care to devote brainpower to such a pursuit. Do you have any other such questions that I can’t answer? Would you like me to tell you who your mommy is or who your 3rd grade teacher was or what color your pet goldfish turned when it died because you fed it too much?
Emphasis mine.
Cool story, bro.
So, war decs were actually helping new players and that’s why you’re sad? Because new players can’t have fun anymore, and because you feel their pain?
BTW, I don’t “remember” which war dec changes happened or were made when. You may have noticed that I am in a corp that cannot be war dec’ed and, also, I don’t care if I am war dec’ed. I don’t concern myself with it, at all. The only change I remember is that the defender was enabled to have allies that could assist them. 
No, it made them a potential target for 15 minutes at a time, which . . . who cares? Ganking makes many of them targets 24/7. How did that hurt the newbies?
lolwat? Are you saying gankers don’t gank for fun? What are you saying, Daichi Yamato? Are you saying gankers have some ulterior motive for suppressing newbie mining in high sec? What could that even mean? But . . . James 315 . . . The Code . . .
I can’t ask them because they don’t really exist anymore. I could ask Pandemic Horde (for which I’ve heard some bad things). We all know Goons take loads of abuse and they are a bunch of noobz. Hey, did YOU bother to ask any of these groups? Maybe you could tell us what they said and who said it (so we can confirm that that’s what they actually said).
I’ll check into that and get back to you.
#whereisWaldo
Did that make you angry?
Sometimes people who have misaligned expectations can become “enraged”, whereby their normal mental constraints are overpowered or shut off and they are enabled to commit abusive acts.
Does that sound like a phenomenon you have experienced? You seem fixated on certain changes CCP made without your approval.
There was no AWOX nerf. BTW. You can’t really nerf information warfare, espionage with some sort of blanket change to mechanics. People can always be lied to, especially players who are new to the game.
In fact, you are lying about many of the changes that CCP made to the game, or rather “spinning” the changes to make them look like they support your agenda. You are claiming to want newbros to have fun while you mislead them. I’ll bet any newbie reading this would actually believe you. They have no bearing. They don’t even know which way is up.
Is lying an act of abuse?
Quote where I did that.
In truth, I love the newbie scum. They’re so gullible and dilligent. Cute, too.
I am Mayhaw Morgan and I support, endorse, and approve of this message.
#truestory #seemslegit
What the hell was this about then?
Yes the wardec nerfs prevented up and coming pvp’rs from having fun. (i wrote it badly. My fault).
That was 2012 as well as changing the cost from a couple mil to 50mil+.
Suspect made them a target for 15 minutes. The kill rights meant anyone could turn them suspect at any time for a month.
It hurts new players because ganking is something noobs could do and be good at it as well. Destroyers are quick to train into.
Deliberately snipping my quote. Nice.
When you can’t argue, try to change the facts. Right?
What rock are you under?
https://evewho.com/alliance/937872513
AWOX. Not AWACS.
Corp friendly fire.
This thread. Arguing that vets used pvp to a detrimental effect of the new player retention.
I was pretty miffed.
What is really interesting about that is it busts the myth that PvP or suicide ganks drive new players away.
Thats probably most people who have tried the game.
Hell, I remember thinking something like that when I started. I ask my friend who brought me into the game “do i need a joystick”, because space game = jet fighters in space game and thus joystick.
He said “no, in EVE you are basically the captain/brains of a ‘capital’ ship, not a fighter jock. The smallest thing you pilot is a FRIGATE and you control it by clicking in space or right clicking on things you want to warp to”. EVE pvp and ship movement are ‘strategic’ in nature, having damn little to do with manual skill (for all except the most elite PVPrs).
It was almost a deal breaker for me but I kept playing and now I HATE “jetfighters in space” games which is why Elite didn’t hold my attention and Star Citizen won’t either.
So many eve players think that if you just change this, or that, or make this more balanced, other open up that to new players etc, that new players will stay and play. EVE players tend to not understand that most space gamers don’t want to be James Kirk or Bill Adama, in fact most are exactly like I was in 2007; fighter jocks (Skywalkers and Apollos) looking for something to use a joystick on. That want something to show off their twitch skills with.
Now, you make an EVE two with EVE style ships AND EVe Valkyrie ‘space-jets’, well, that might be something entirely different…
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Umm, don’t know where you got that idea from.
Try watching the 2019 World Invasion Tour presentation - Beyond The Friendship Machine - and pay close attention to the part about the ‘Magic Moment’ for new player retention.
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Well it sort of does.
Everything CCP has said, starting from the 2015 presentation of Rise to the more recent comments of CCP Ghost and Hilmar on player retention argues that PvP or suicide ganking in and of itself does not drive new players away. That first encounter with PvP, like that first encounter with any of the more challenging bits of the game where the player can actually lose, is impactful, and framing that ‘magic moment’ is thought to be a significant determinant in whether that player stays. Therefore, losing a ship in a war or to gankers isn’t the problem - having that happen with no context, explanation, or without friends or a social group to support the new player is the issue.
And I think Daichi has done an excellent job above explaining why all these well-intended nerfs to avenues to content that were done in the name of new players have failed to boost retention. It seems now that wardecs, ganking, AWOXing, can flipping, ninja-salvaging or suspect baiting were the cause of so many ‘magic moments’ where players experienced the unexpected, either directly or saw it happen in the universe around them, and then bonded with their social group or had their eyes opened to the real possibilities of the sandbox around them. Sure, it also drove some players away that didn’t have the support or ability to understand what just happened, but at least by exposing newer players to highsec conflict, there was the chance of sparking that ‘magic moment’ and hooking that player.
Instead, CCP has just nerfed the hell out of the mechanisms of generating highsec content to the point they aren’t possible at all, or just not viable for new players. I don’t think this was always completely intentional, rather just often the easiest way to fix a balance issue, but regardless, it has sterilized highsec and made it boring and unengaging. It now seems that the only thing worse for retention than throwing a new player into a ‘magic moment’ without sufficient support is to remove the game mechanisms that use to generate those ‘magic moments’ from the game in the first place.
This isn’t an easy problem to solve. But I think after almost a decade of making highsec, and the game in general, safer and safer, it’s time to put down the tape and bubble-wrap and come up with some new strategies to get players engaged with game, ones that involve some conflict and content, and in a way the new player can have a ‘magic moment’ in a supportive context. Otherwise, retention rates will remain abysmal if you just release new players into the empty husk of a game that is modern highsec, where almost nothing of note happens, and the few places where there are interesting, player-driven things going on are only the province of veteran players where the new players cannot compete or participate, other than perhaps as mostly helpless targets.
There needs to be accessible, player-driven activities where new players can participate and feel like they can contribute and even compete with veterans to generate ‘magic moments’. Making highsec safer and safer just helps the veterans and widens the gap between new and established players, and is thus counterproductive to this goal. More importantly, CCP has tried this repeatedly and It hasn’t worked.
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Don’t know why everyone keeps thinking I said suicide ganking is the cause.
CCP Ghost and CCP Hellmar didn’t place any distinction on whether it was PvP, PvE or Suicide Ganking and neither did I, they simply stated that the ‘Magic Moment’ of when a new player decides to stay or quit is when they lose their first ship.
They also stated that without a social support group most of those new players will just quit. The graph’s they posted show that 90% of brand new players to the game actually quit within their first week.
Considering the fact that these are actual brand new players who have never played the game, it’s a safe bet they haven’t formed or joined any social support group during that time frame either. And since CCP directly linked the ‘Magic Moment’ with the New Player retention, the obvious conclusion is that most of those new players quit due to losing their first ship within the first week of playing this game.
So I don’t know what it is you’re actually trying to say here. If your assessment of that presentation is that the reason those new players quit is because High Sec has been made too safe, then you clearly missed the whole point.
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We also know from previous statistics that 85,5% of all newbros don’t experience a “magic moment” because they don’t lose a ship at all, and they are even more likely to quit!
So what Pedro said is absolutely in point. For years highsec agression was nerfed and the posdibility to make the “magic moment” occure has gone away. Few players come that far to even make that decision because they simply quit out oft boredom long before they lose a ship.
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So when should a player be permitted to lose a ship and how does CCP make that a mechanism?
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‘Previous Statistics’ doesn’t matter so your statement is irrelevant.
Please post a current Official statement from CCP to prove your statement, otherwise it’s just speculation.
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What CCP has to do is to introduce more conflict back into highsec or to make sure new players don’t stay there and fall into the trap of endless grinding missions or mining. It’s pretty simple.
What they did over the years, and we always said that, was that highsec became a complete wasteland of content. Nothing interesting happens there. It’s full of vets grinding in almost perfect safety, the same people who push always for even more safety to further benefit them to the determent of new players who are spawned into the most boring place imaginable because of it.
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If you’re referring to new players,
As for what designates a new player, CCP said they will make that determination on a case by case review.
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It would seem that the plan to remove risk of danger in High is nearly finished. The last step is to make it memeishly unpopular, and the mood of the forums changing looks like its a cert by next year.
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Dude, all you do is to interpret a SINGLE SENTENCE from Hilmars presentation out of context and give it an interpretation that fits your narrative. I’m sorry for you if you are incapable of understanding the bigger picture and just stamp your feet because no one falls for your little attempt to distort what was actually said.
There is no point in discussing this with you, it will just end in more word games. I just cited your post to point out the mistake for everyone else to read.
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I mean they can either start to revert it or introduce completely new mechanics to mess with other players or continue to see their PCU drop and EVE fade into insignificance. It’s up to them, nothing we say here has any influence anyway.
The mistake is you applying that PR stunt CCP Rise did years ago to the current issue of new player retention.
The issue isn’t about suicide ganking so stop trying to make it out to be just that.
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Im pretty sure their intent is now to create a two tier system.
High Sec with almost 100% safety, where buying PLEX direct to sell for investment capital is the norm, and Null Sec where the ingame buyers are.
Hence the demolishing of the Middle Class but very little to prevent High Krabbing.
How this will lead to anything but a stagnant market I dont know unless they have a content driver planned somehow.
At any rate, if people leave because they lose a ship, simply removing that obstacle is the next step and they are pretty much nearly there.
Just wish theyd drop the pretend grimdark they still talk about and just do it so I can finally quit in peace.
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