The point is that the majority leaves before they have even the chance to lose a ship and have that “magic moment”. So if they concentrate on making it even safer they will make it worse, like they did for the last decade.
1 Like
I agree, but it seems thats what the mob want.
Theyll either do that or just let it grind on.
But I would not be suprised either way.
Id be fascinated to know what the High Sec endgame is supposed to be if amassing wealth at whatever speed with no losses is made cast iron.
I would tattoo this on Hellmar’s forehead if I could.
Ganking, PvP, wardecs yadda yadda are only surface expressions of the underlying issues, and they aren’t key drivers of player base changes (IMO).
They are the result rather than the cause of boring game design that leaves players with few interesting things to do.
New players don’t leave because they got ganked. They leave because they find the game slow paced and clumsy, because they can’t locate something interesting or engaging to do, but more importantly (in my experience), because they cannot find a game activity to participate in that is not already being done better, faster, cheaper, and in more places by vets with 3-10 years head start on them.
Sure the forum goons will swarm in with “but I know a guy who started and within 3 weeks was PvPing vets!”. Yeah, everybody can find a counter-example to anything you want to point out. In the main, though, the evidence that EVE is not greatly interesting or engaging to new (and old) players is right there in the player numbers and the continual downsizing of CCP.
As @Black_Pedro said, if new players, intermediate players, and veteran players don’t have engaging, productive content they can access without needing to wait for 2 years of paid sub skilling-up time, then EVE will continue to bleed players until it’s a walking corpse.
1 Like
What makes you that? It’s pretty hard to say what will actually happen now, but they will have to do something or EVE will bleed out. And once it is labeled a “dead game” there is no coming back I fear.
It seems to me they have all the pieces of the puzzles now and if they understand it they will not nerf highsec further but take steps to slingshot the new players into more meaningful content, out of the PvE trap.
I cross my fingers but don’t hold my breath. In the end there are other games and there will be a new Eve like game if this one leaves a hole in the market.
I dont think they do understand it, or rather they dont understand that what EvE is or was is not what a lot of players think it is.
I think they intend to make it wholly a two tier system with Blackout the first palpable stage of that plan as it clears out those who dont fit more squarely in the peghole.
They will cruise along redefining what the game is, because for whomever gets to choose these things the fact is its the only perpetual Space MMO of any size and stability server side, and thats really all they care.
In short (and I so wish to be wrong), they want to calcify HighSec and Blocnull to create a far more controllable ecosystem they can profit from.
Freedom of choice will be eroded more and more.
Given the actions of CCP and the attitudes now prevailent on the forums compared to years ago, its the only outcome I can see.
Ofc I would be happy to be wrong. Time will tell but as the 8 Ball says “All signs point to ■■■■”
2 Likes
My own and others’ experience with Triglavians- in invasion systems and with roaming scouts - indicate hisec is less safe than prior to their introduction. Within the new player context of this thread, IMO Triglavians are a bit OP.
I’ve yet to encounter their “diamond rat” brethren, but hear they’re also likely beyond the ability of brand new players on their own.
Regarding potential danger from fellow capsuleers, I’m still regularly scanned by Tornadoes while hauling along trade routes, and there’s never a shortage of flashing, red, criminals and wrecks at gates and hubs along said routes.
I’ve only played EVE since 2013, so cannot speak to the hisec danger level prior.
1 Like
I was more referring to what direction Im seeing the game take, I did after all recently lose a multi bill cargo to Tornadoes, but that was my own stupidity and avarice rather than a heightened danger level.
I suppose for me the biggest warning sign will be to come;
If Wardecs are tied to structure ownership, and no one other than Dec Corps owns them, then fighting can only take place without reason, which isnt a conflict driver. Im not in favour of Deccing a small corp of indies with a War Corp, but the mechanics in play pretty much have crushed the life out of them as a thing.
Its been made easier to avoid conflict, and only two directions remain; roll it back or finish the job. And I doubt there will be any rollback.
What you say about Trigs, well yes they are dangerous to new players, cant argue with that, but again I wouldnt be suprised to see the intesity of their appearance drop.
Right now, gate Trigs dont stop movement and they dont engage particularly quickly. A small nerf and theyd be nothing better than little pinatas.
And if you listen to the voices on the forum, the loudest and most numerous are those in favour of danger reduction. If thats the fanbase CCP are going to pander to, I expect HighSec to be gank free by mid 2020.
2 Likes
I do realise Im sounding like Duro btw
The difference is Im not in favour of it.
I respectfully disagree that setting conlict levels is a purely binary choice. My takeaway from Hilmar, Falcon, and Goodfella’s Talking in Stations interview is they’re trying to simultaneously ease new players into our sandbox while ramping up chaos on the rest of us. Whether CCP can accomplish so daunting and complex a goal remains to be seen.
I’ve no data other than my own anecdotal observations regarding structure ownership, but there are numerous Upwell stations across the space I frequent. I haven’t performed in-depth research but most of these facilities seemed like industrial infrastructure.
At any rate, I hope that CCP can find a balance between features supporting new player retention and long-term player development/interest. A gank-free EVE would not be EVE.
2 Likes
I wish they were making it easier for new playes, the New Player Experience is pretty dreadful. But the idea of getting new players in would go hand in hand in my prediction to making HighSec doublesafe, after all another feeling strong on the forums at any rate is that High Sec is FOR new players.
Most structures Ive seen are either owned by big Wardec corps or even bigger Nullsec entities.
Ive been operating an industrial one and a wardec one on two different corps: the fact neither corp has been wardecced is fairly suprising to me, which led me to my thoughts on it
But I do appreciate your views, always good to avoid an echo chamber.
1 Like
You mean besides the fact that the first 22k lost in your chart happens on day one or first login, those players are not getting ganked, they are not even finishing the new player experience.
I hope CCP doesn’t make this mistake. Making hisec risk-free/boring won’t automatically get everyone migrating to low or null once they’re no longer “new”.
I reciprocate your sentiments!
1 Like
It sounds like he installed the game based on the marketing. Which we all know is not even closely related to what the game actually is. I’m guessing he’s one of the “older” new players. Most probably quit in less time than it took to download the game.
1 Like
Wow, you really need to learn how to correctly read a chart or learn how to do math.
There was initially 25,136 Registrations with only 12,351 First Login.
That’s 12,285 who didn’t login, not 22k lost.
Yes there’s definitely a big problem with that, almost half who downloaded the game didn’t even log into the game. As for the rest of the numbers on that graph, something happened that made those players quit.
Anyway, not sure why you CODEfuc’s keep bringing up suicide ganking all the time but you seriously need to just drop it already.
0/10 troll. If this was truly your take away, you have completely missed the point.
- No, you are just not willing to learn the game
- Paying for convenience is not a problem. Paying for power is. The current model doesn’t do that.
- You play to experience the game. You can however ignore it if you want. The game doesn’t need yo force you to play with others, that is your CHOICE. If you think ISK is why a lot of us play, you are not paying attention.
- If you die it is more likely becuase you lack experience, not skills or gear. An Alpha can make millions a day in low, null, or wormholes if they understand the mechanics and pay attention.
- OK, this one I get. New players assume that there are role, like ‘fighter’, ‘mage’, or ‘rogue’ when they choose a career. In Eve the concept is abstract, not concrete. You play how you want to play. There is no ‘Pirate Level 8’ stat.
- You just had bad luck then. I spend a lot of time the the rookie or other chats trying to help new players (this is not a easy game to learn). There are a bunch of new player corps out there and most of them are legit. We want people to play here, not to leave. That is on the community, not CCP.
- Yes and no. Alpha is essentially a trial account without a time limit. Do not pretend that it is anything other than that. However, there is a lot you can do with an alpha. If you don’t want to learn the difference, then hopefully you’ll find a better solution down the road.
1 Like
New Eden is a cruel, sadistic world. For a new player it is like being a wimpy emo elementary school transfer student stepping out onto the playground for the first time, where every other kid out there wants to push them down, steal their lunch money, and start poking with sharp objects to see how many tears they can get to flow.
1 Like
Quite a lot of putting quotes into other people’s mouths in this thread. No? It’s a kind of a cybernetic sport, among frienemies in the game, who duel each other on the field every day, in ISK ships, and in Local. (And in ships as well). But ganging up on another player and putting words into his mouth in these fooking forums? Shee-it. Come on you dudes, that is a crap game. Undock and do it where your ship is. That’s fair sport, and fair challenge. 
1 Like
You have come to the wrong game if you want fair play, sorry.
2 Likes
I was never good with words so I let music speak for me…
1 Like
Poor little guys. We should do whatever you suggest to allow them to have fun again. Oh, wait . . .
I’m so confused.
Moving on . . .
But that’s okay, because “You consent to PVP when you undock. Nowhere is safe.” - some ganker
Corp “friendly fire” was a dumb mechanic. And, I hate to say that because someone had to come up with it. Someone had to approve it. On the surface, it might sound like I am insulting them, but sometimes dumb solutions seem smart until you try them. Sometimes, the solution is smart when it is implemented and only later becomes dumb. Dueling didn’t exist when it was implemented and there may have been some pressing need or desire to allow players to shoot eachother without them having to go to low sec or null. I’m not judging the reasoning behind it because I don’t even know the reasoning behind it. But the result was . . . dumb. Being friends with someone doesn’t mean you get to murder eachother any more than being friends with someone means you can’t murder eachother.
Making friendly fire an opt-in feature just makes more sense. That doesn’t change AWOXing . . . almost at all, because as we have already been over, “You consent to PVP when you undock. Nowhere is safe.” - some ganker
It may actually make AWOXing worse, because people have a greater assumption of safety in a No Friendly Fire corporation. Although, I will admit that there is a reduced potential for cheap kills on unsuspecting new players, but you can even still do it by just having them join a Friendly Fire On corporation.
I don’t think it was about AWOXing.
And what happens when people get angry? You’ve played EVE. You know the answer. Apply it to yourself.