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Haha different ball game over there isn’t it 
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You will find that the people here who claim to be speaking for the “new player” and demand changes in their name are most of the time older players who have an issue with the “hard” or criminal side of EVE. It is almost never actually new players who seek this changes.
I also find the attitude of those people to basically describe a new player as a child that needs help to be belittling. A new player is a gamer looking for a new interesting game to play. Period. This is why I’m so vehemently against the ideas to remove danger as it is exactly what leads to interesting stuff happening.
EVE without danger, scams and all the shenanigans you can pull off is just a seriously dull mining simulator with some subpar PvE.
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☆☆☆☆☆
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Yeah, except for all the threads by actual new players saying what they think about the game. You know, like this one. I guess maybe you figure those are all created by alts of vets who have problems with the ‘hard’ side of EVE.
Seriously, I don’t get the vets who keep coming in, year after year, saying that “only vets who don’t like the hard parts complain about EVE and the NPE”. I mean, do you have a hard time reading the graphs of player logins? They’re kind of hard to misinterpret.
Bad game design, poor NPE, not introducing new players to the things that will actually make them stay, but instead trying to lead them into making their first big mistake, vets who consistently recommend ‘solutions’ to new player problems that actual new players would know nothing about.
Telling people “look if you google everything about EVE, ask the questions that you don’t even know you should be asking yet, because you’re new, and spend maybe 6-8 hours reading up on how to solve the problems you won’t know you have until they kill you” is not an actual solution to new player problems.
Sure, I agree a new player trying out EVE is probably someone looking for a challenge, and doesn’t need his hand held at every step. However pointing out that the NPE is boring and ineffective, that most of the game is rigged against new players, that EVE does nothing to gradually introduce players to risk and risk management but instead just takes them from ‘safe and stupidly easy’ (the NPE) to “die before you know what’s happening” (the rest of EVE)… this is not treating new players as a child.
If you want EVE to continue dying as rapidly as it is, and go into maintenance mode in about 3-4 years time, then sure, vote for “Keep EVE the way it is”. Otherwise maybe it’s time to start paying attention to some of the people who are advocating for significant change.
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Bit pointless to recommend solutions they DO know about
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I agree that the NPE and new player experience is stupid. It is themeparky while the rest of EVE isn’t and directs them directly into boring PvE. I think almost everyone will agree that this is a problem.
What op talked about is not what I was referring to. He does not ask to make the game more secure, he us just extremely confused by the game, other vets in this thread however did so and continuously do in threads all over the forums.
Sure, you can probably find the odd new player that may be annoyed that suicide ganks or wars are possible. But they are rather rare and the majority of those complaints comes from indi vets who would rather just grind in isolation.
CCP knows or at least should by now what the actual problem is. But they kinda always get it wrong.
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This has not been my new player experience at all–I wonder how much of that is due to avoiding mining or basically combat in general? I die rarely, it’s pretty much always my fault when I do, and I had a corp invite me after about a week of playing and I really like my corpmates.
Regarding player toxicity, it is definitely a thing, but no more so in EvE than most other video games. Also, real talk, there’s a much higher level of toxicity and trolling in the forums than there is in the actual game, so take that for what you will.
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In nullsec the level of toxicity is relatively high 
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I enjoy this. As I am working and I am away from my computer at home I read up on things I don’t understand, create notes on wormholes, notes on areas of nullsec I should visit ( spending a bit of time in DOTLAN watching activity and finding new homes ) reading forums and then Googling the subject to find a bit more about it. This is amazing, the game is so complex you have to research… that is a fantastic and dynamic thing to do!!!
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Me too. This is honestly one of my favorite things about EvE. Here’s a question–do we want more people to play the game initially only to become rapidly disenchanted when it’s not what they wanted? OR, do we want to be up front about what it takes to play EvE in a meaningful way, potentially scaring off some individuals from playing but making it more likely that people that start playing keep playing?
To some extent, it seems to me that EvE is marketed in a way such that potential players go, “oh man, that looks so cool, I join and get to immediately get in on these massive super sweet space battles.” For most new players, I would say that’s probably not the early game experience. I don’t have the metrics on that, but I think it’s certainly plausible.
If EvE were marketed in a way that provided a more accurate indication of a player’s early days in the game, I wonder whether retention would increase? I’m not sure if that’s better than CCP’s shotgun approach–if we market in a way that presents the broadest appeal, surely SOME of those players will stick, right?–but it’s something to consider.
As I’ve mentioned before, I think one of the reasons I love EvE and will be staying through my first 90 days (and beyond!) is because I knew what I was getting into before I pulled the trigger on downloading the game and playing. I know a lot of people who started out that way, and most of them still play. But I’m not sure that’s the typical new EvE player situation. Maybe that should somehow be made more explicit? Man, I don’t know.
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I can only comment from my own experience on the subject of marketing, as I am probably unqualified to suggest a solution…but…
I found Eve because I googled " Space MMO" ( TY Google Algorithm ) . Eve popped up… I then typed in “Eve Online” on YouTube, continued watching while NOT doing anything productive at work 
.
One thing that caught my *Ear on YouTube was the Voices on discord all sounded like Middle Aged Nerdy Guys/Girls…
“I found my game” 
Why? Because I myself am a nerdy adult. And I would like to be immersed in a game with other nerdy adults with an IQ just high enough to not have immature emotions every corner like Fortnight or COD.
Why are people like myself probably a good target for marketing? Middle-aged nerdy guys/girls have money. And why not pay and support something you love. Id get a gym membership or play golf but the gym is full of grunting angry lifters and golf is boring.
Then, where do you find more middle-aged nerdy girls/guys that will make the time to research all the hard parts about Eve and stick around for the never ending game that has no end???
Not sure, tracking data maybe? “How many dimensions are there and who is Neil Degrasse Tyson” . I’m sure you could find many candidates for space adventures in that category of searches.
Then what? Keep the game hard, keep it Chaotic with a hint Order. The massive “Space Battles” are light at the end of the tunnel but its the Chaos and Steep Learning Curve that give Eve substance IMO. There is no shame in pay to win… bills have to get payed and middle aged nerdy girls/guys like to advance at what ever rate they see fit. You will never win Eve by paying but by paying you improve your playing 
. And obviously skill comes in to that too but who doesn’t want to learn and get immersed sooner?
There are MANY new player that love Eve, it is just that not many of them will have the emotional maturity or patients to listen to Veteran Players in forums. I love reading what bitter vets have to say, iv been somewhat targeted for being a little naive about Eve but, I really don’t mind, I can see a lot of love for Eve from these people who just want change for whatever reason. They are perspectives that should be respected. But that’s just my opinion.
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If it is that dire, how did any of us make it this far? How did subs keep growing up until 2013-14?
The npe is more instructive than ever before. Voice acting, tool tips and high lights. There is more protection for new players than ever before. The ui is easier to read than ever before. New players aren’t getting shot to pieces as soon as they get into the game. Very few of them encounter pvp at all.
Where are noobs having such a hard time compared to before?
I agree that the game is stacked against new players more now than before but i don’t think it’s for the same reasons as you. I think heavy farming has made new player income less significant. So the economy may be stacked against them. Their options to impact the game may be stacked against them.
But that’s happened because of safety.
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It’s a shame you missed the times before the “Dual feature” was introduced. There was a LOT more smack talk in locals as you tried to piss someone off enough to make a mistake. 
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100% correct and very well written.
Experience and knowledge is the answer to your first question.
Large playerbase filled with a lot of friendly helpful people is the answer to your second question.
EVE is a much more accessible game than ever before !
EVE is not the game for you. Or you didn’t play enough to get hooked.
The First Time I played EVE the game wasn’t even a year old yet.
I entered thinking that I would be playing a Spaceship Simulator with MMO features.
I thought I would fly my ship with a Joystick instead of mouse clicks, approach and orbit. I thought it would be possible to find cover behind a Station or an asteroid. Dude I was wrong !
Surviving was a real challenge back them.
Everything was so expensive and it was very hard to earn enough ISK.
There were no agents to grant missions and standings.
Battleships were the Top Dog.
There was no Alpha Accounts.
If you forgot to update your clone… the pain of losing your skills was excruciating.
Playing EVE is much less painful in 2019.
The Second Time was around 2008.
The game was already much more developed.
A lot has changed. A lot has been added. Lots of things to do. Many different systems and mechanics. Already impossible to master everything.
Battleships were not the Top Dog anymore.
The game was still unforgivable.
Low-Sec was fun. Nullsec was hard to cross (too many bubbles).
The Third Time (until today) started in 2016 with the implementation of Alphas Accounts.
Alpha accounts are terrible. No flying ships of other factions. Alpha accounts are useless.
I sold 90% of everything I had.
I extracted all skills from my four Alts.
I now have two Mains, four useless Alpha accounts and a lot of ISK.
I bought PLEX for my two Mains, they can fly again.
Battleships have no place in fleets anymore.
Null-Sec is now the New Eden. Getting ISK is easy. No more battles no more risk. It’s EVE Cold War. “Love Is In The Air”…
One PLEX turned into 500 plex. PLEX that was already expensive is now out of control. Too many tears…
Alpha accounts now can fly a little. A Top Alpha player now can kill a below average Omega player. Too many tears…
CCP Changed Its Mind. After years and years making Null-Sec richer, safer and more powerful, now CCP is trying to undo its own creation. Too many tears…
[ Noteworthy Space Games]
“Star Wars: X-Wing” Series (1993…)
“Homeworld” Series (1999…)
“Independence War 2: The Edge of Chaos” (2001)
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How so?
What experience or knowledge did i have when i started that a noob today doesn’t?
The activity of the game is the same as 2007 (someone was saying). So why did noobs from 2007 stick around with such a small player base?
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Because as a society we are breeding kids that do not like the struggle, chaos that is, a steep learning curve. They take the soft approach, and give up. A lot changes is 12 years. Everyone gets offended too easily these days, only the strong will adapt to Eve. And the weak will play Fortnight…
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Keep believing this, cause it makes the game much more fun for the rest of us.