Maybe. That could still be a long way off…
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I remember them talking about that. I had always wondered what had become of that.
Maybe > Soon > Never … what feature?
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If CCP is actually leaning towards removing modules from loot drops, then those module drops need to be replaced with BPC’s. Those BPC’s should also be available in the appropriate LP stores as well. And the materials to build those BPC’s will need to be easily obtained or else players just won’t bother with it.
Course doing that will require a lot of work by CCP, something I highly doubt they’re willing to do.
T1 and T2 modules players already build.
Add mutaplasmids and you can have wide range of modules (from previous “faction”, “deadspace” and “officer” categories).
Doesn’t matter if T1 and T2 modules can be mutated to have similar stats as Faction, Deadspace or Officer mods. What matters is those modules maintaining their place in the game.
Why would I waste time, effort and ISK on trying to mutate T1 or T2 modules when I can easily just turn in LP’s for Faction modules, run exploration sites for Deadspace modules and or rat in Null Sec asteroid belts for Officer modules?
If what erg cz said is true, that would make LP stores, exploration sites and Null Sec ratting pretty much obsolete.
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capital meta modules BPO are already available in store, not in LP store.
Honestly it sounds like a super low priority more trouble than it’s worth type of proposal. The work portion is probably what is going to keep this from happening for a few years at least. Also there’s so much stock out there trading for around mineral price it would probably take another few years to get to the point where items are profitable to build. Manufacturers are already busy building t2 stuff and there are pretty good margins there.
sure it sounds cool to have everything be player produced, but it just doesn’t seem worth it. The game dev time to game impact ratio just isn’t there.
I don’t like the idea of killing meta 6+ drops, adding a production step just sounds like an unnecessary step.
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Id be very surprised if CCP doent make several changes yet to Abyss drop rates and mutaplasmid success/magnitude %.
What is important is:
1- Filament market remains vibrant.
2- T2.5 modules dont cause massive T2 sink.
3- T2.5 modules dont replace LP/DED module markets.
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Nah, these points contradict each other. Without vastly more reasons and opportunities to use Mutaplasmids (which leads to T2 sink), the filament market can’t remain vibrant and the LP/DED module market will go back to where it was before or below that.
After Alliance Tournament the entire thing will collapse at once.*
The only reason prices for some Filaments are so high right now, is because the markets for Skillbooks, certain Mutaplasmids and build materials are not yet saturated. This is soon going to be the case and after that prices for all loot will plummet, in turn prices for Filaments will plummet too. Same for all Faction loot that is connected to running Abyssal Deadspace or in heavy use for mutation. Whoever uses Mutaplasmids now either is looking for a very specific item and is willing to pay a high price for it, or is simply not understanding the game.
(*) Cap batteries and Nosferatus might temporarily work against that, but not for very long
CCP will be forced to re-think their approach to Mutaplasmids.
Mutaplasmids are not the only reward from pockets.
The points do not “contradict” each other, just establish 3 priorities to keep in mind in regards to changing Abyss loot drop and mutaplasmid changes.
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but into what exactly? The mechanism behind it assign them into niche use. In theory the idea is great, it’s like impossible to measure variants of the module, but why do we need that? Game must have some predictable bounadries to master.
Let’s pretend that there are no meta level modules except T1 and that T1 modules are mutated into current meta levels up to officer mods. Mutaplasmids are droping from explo sites instead of current DED modules. Now imagine how pita would be to fit a hull without premade meta levels.
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It’s certainly a tough nut. I think for Mutaplasmids finding a better place, you’d need to account for a variety of different issues, such as:
- take a look at usage of T1, Meta T1, T2, Faction, DED, Officer versions of a module
- T1 is simply the worst of all possible choices, for all modules that currently work with Mutaplasmids
- Basically, no one uses T1 ever
- Meta T1: some Meta T1 for some modules are in regular use, esp. where they provide a CPU/Powergrid advantage over using T2 (fitting is the main reason people use Meta T1, that’s why some are and some aren’t used)
- T2 is used wherever people have the skills, can afford it, have the free fitting space.
- and so on for Faction (slightly better stats, lower PG/CPU/Cap), DED (much better stats, often higher PG/CPU)…
Now, when conceptualizing Mutaplasmids for just one module group, I think the very first question that needs to be asked is: WHY. Why would people want to use them? With that in mind, we take another look at the list:
- T1: it’s not going to be good enough, ever. No need to use Mutaplasmids on these, no matter how they’d work
- Meta T1: those are cheap and abundant. Most of them are just minerals waiting to be reprocessed. The useful ones could be mutated for two reasons: same better than T2 fitting stats + T2 equivalent strength; or: even better fitting stats;
- T2: going half way towards faction regarding fitting or halfway regarding DED regarding strenght
- Faction/DED/Officer: possibly better fitting, but presumeably the no. 1 priority are the other stats on the module (speed/sig radiud/neut range/web range)…
This doesn’t really allow for an immediate conclusion. It allows though, to check any specific idea for Mutaplasmid balance against the roles of T1/Meta/T2/Faction/DED modules of that type. Looking at that will make it predictable what will in happen in case 1,2,3 (being different concepts for implementation of Mutas)
For instance:
- a low droprate and high price for Mutas that have the current, nerfed-pre-patch stats:
- might in rare cases be useful for Meta1 or T2 use, but after a while players will see that just buying LP is cheaper and less stress, even when using the lowest tier of Mutaplasmids
- will certainly point players towards using Faction/DED for mutations, which also means that lower tier Mutaplasmids will become more and more useless
- in return the entire thing ends up being a short-timed run on high income, until all the rich players have the moduels they want (for AT and such)
- longterm outcome is hard to predict, but it might end up being an unloved mechanic
Now, creating a better plan is not as easy as simply turning things 180°.
While the contract system has been overhauled a little bit, it still is a pain to find the module you need. The same goes for your item hangar once you have a load of Abyssal mods.
@Salvos_Rhoska is of course right that a high droprate and significantly lower prices would lead to AD becoming a massive sink for T2 modules and thereby an economic win for Nullsec moon miners. The question is: did the short term profit for LP/DED guys really outweigh anything at all and does it really matter more how much richer Goons will get, than how much fun everyone else is having?
Good-ish Abyssal mods are a luxury now. They will stay to be luxury even if CCP changes the droprates quite a bit, because you’ll need to use Faction/DED as a base if you want results that are interesting enough.
I’d say the two ways to fix them would be to either:
1
lower the droprates much further, but use Mutaplasmids like “rigs” for modules. It would stop the Faction/DED loot from becoming more and more overpriced for the average player, and it would rise Mutaplasmid prices significantly. (rigs as in: keep the stat%variety, but be able to de-mutate the module if you don’t like the result, thus only ever risking the Mutaplasmid - it’s not necessary to have even more DED/Faction sinks than we had pre-Abyss and right now it’s just becoming stupid)
or
2
increase either the droprates or the mutation % of stats (or both) significantly, in order for Mutaplasmids to stop being the limiting factor in all of that
Maybe CCP already tried to compromise too much and will just stick to how it’s now.
p.s. As a meta-changer the Mutaplasmids are doing a bad job right now, as I predicted pre-launch. Not only is their implementation too complicated, but their limited power did not affect the already “solved” PVP encounters. People are still grinding PVE and dropping carriers/fax. Unbalanced Mutaplasmids at least had the chance to break that apart a little bit, but tbf it could have also made it worse. Who knows.
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Exactly, but other rewards (Skillbooks and such) will soon go down in price quite heavily and in turn Filaments will as well. The Triglavian ships are not yet used to any significant extent, and most people report to not like flying them, so it’s likely that their prices and the prices for their parts will plummet as well.
The points absolutely contradict each other. You can’t have Filaments in high demand while the loot from Abyssal Deadspace becomes less and less interesting, because the demand drops.
It’s a bit weird to realize that some people who don’t want Goons to win (while they already have broken the game with CCPs help in an economical sense), really only care about their own game and not think about the consequences for others. It’s almost like egoism vs egoism always ends up looking good for someone short-time, at the cost of overall game quality.
My 3 previously stated priorities stand, in regards to the ideal of how CCP may change loot drops or mutaplasmid %s
So you are basically saying that you like if the game works in your favor, no matter what it does to the game. Hm, are you a Goony after all?
No.
Im saying there is no contradiction between the 3 priority concerns I listed regarding possible changes to drop rates and mutaplasmid %s.
Has nothing to do with “my favor”, whatever you mean by that
decayed mutas are cheap enough that I’ve been doing some bulk rolling. I did 300 heavy neuts (100 scoped, 100 compact, 100 t2), I also did 100 t2 webs. I’ve also done some gravid/unstable on a few other things.
My gut reaction is that the t2 were the best to use because of neut amount and range. A meta neut zaps 550GJ, where t2 and faction are 600GJ, also t2 has more range than either meta neut. The best meta rolls pretty much match t2 base stats but have better fitting. So there might be some nifty meta rolls with low fitting that would be useful on some setups. Then I also did some gravid rolls with faction heavy neuts, 30km 700GJ neuts should be fun, and there’s a few deadspace/officer rolls on contracts that are pretty insane some with 44km range, some with 800GJ+.
I think the next step is to put it all in a spreadsheet and try to figure out the general distributions that and to just sort it and know what I have. Looking at the items in game it’s just a mess.
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or CCP will have to add sliders to filter them out via stats (also at the market).
@zluq_zabaa rather than on what modules they should be used I was asking why do we need them at all at current state? Is mutated web with faction stats significally cheaper than faction drop? The whole idea on mutaplasmids was that they will shake the stale meta. So affordable modules above T2 with rolled stats.
Mutated modules need to remain niche anyways.
Dont want them screwing with T2/drop module economies, nor doing more than adding a pinch of spice to PvP in terms of fitting/performance.