That’s like saying people don’t want to drive fast on the highway, because they are afraid of messing up their permanent driving record.
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Except that you are incorrect. Because casual and solo play has always made up 2/3 or more of the MMORPG audience. MMO after MMO has tried to force players into more group/clan content for various reasons, and they almost always fail at it.
In the times when they don’t fail at it, it’s because they make group content extremely easy to access - as in, click a button, click “Join team content”, and you’re teleported off to a fairly quick group mission, then teleported back at the end.
EVE fails to encourage more group play for various reasons. Group play requires reliable trust, but EVE encourages multiple forms of betrayal, scamming, and exploitation. Group play requires being in the same place at the same time, but EVE makes most travel long and slow. Group play often requires certain skills, gear or knowledge, and not everyone has all the above.
But the primary issue is that EVE doesn’t really even provide much group content. Most of it is “hey let’s spend 40 minutes grouping up and deciding what we’re going to do, then 20 minutes getting us all there, then 10 minutes waiting for ‘that guy’, then we’ll do our stuff together… for 15 minutes, then I have to go.”
That’s why probably over half of the EVE player base has been and always will be solo casual. And if you ignore half your player base, you lose a lot of them. Although at least CCP is fair in this respect… they ignore the needs of most play styles. And they’ve got the player count to show for it.
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“If you would turn marmite into my specific version of peanut butter you’d get more people playing it. I’m really just stating this because I want to game to have more players and totally NOT because I want the game to turn into peanut butter, and then specifically the one I personally like”.
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All your arguments seem to be based on your perceptions of other games. Perhaps you would prefer to play those other games?
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My notions have been posted in the past, although not many recently. The forums haven’t had a whole lot of rational discussion this past year.
For this thread and the people active in it, that’s an off-topic rabbit hole, going down it would pretty much just close the thread. The usual rabid “EVE must support ganking foreva!” crowd is already active. Here’s a summary how the ‘discussion’ is going:
Me: “The numbers show that EVE-style wardecs lead to essentially bullying and people quit the game as a result. There are better ways to do it.”
Them: “You have no numbers and you just want PvP nerfed.”
(I provide the numbers and references.)
“Those numbers mean nothing because you’re just using them to make the game your way.”
(But I’m actually talking about getting MORE people to stay logged in, participating, and in space when a war dec is on.)
“No, your real agenda is to make space safe for all carebears and give out free participation trophies.”
Oh well, once the conversation gets to that level, there’s no point allowing the “elite PvPers” of high sec to drag it down any further.
If you want discussion of ways to fix war decs or ganking or any other issue, start a topic on that specific issue. And try to make it something with a better basis for actual discussion than “Gankers/wardecs/carebears suck! Gankers/wardecs/carebears must be removed from game.”
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The real issue is that other than suspect hunting and a few cases of skilled ganking, there is almost no solo PvP to be had in highsec. So a new solo player thus faces having to go to lowsec, where there’s people with 33,000 solo kills waiting to pounce on them. And there is nothing in between.
I would tend to agree that CCP have forgotten solo players.
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Are you claiming these are two different goals?
How exactly do you propose to significantly increase the player base without dumbing the game down?
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Why do you think it’s important to have MORE people logged in if they don’t accept or agree to what the game is about and has been about?
What makes you think it’s ok to change a game that was niche on purpose, fully understanding this would limit the appeal, to something that makes it more like any other game out there where it has to compete with all the other games that are like peanut butter. Which it will then fail at because it’ll never be as peanut butter as real peanut butter.
Every WOW clone failed. Because if people wanted to play something that is like WOW they’d… play WOW. If you want to succeed and do well you want to differentiate from what everyone else does. JUST because that means less people will like it doesn’t mean it’s not a good strategy.
The only people who USE the “more people = better” is the ones who play the game even though they don’t like it and want to have it changed, into peanut butter, even though the people who have been playing it for 2 decades like it because it’s marmite, it’s why they stuck around.
Talk about main character syndrome…
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Quality over quantity.
I’d rather have a game with less players, and more fun.
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It’s really just like corporations in EVE, the only way to grow big(er) is by lowering your recruitment standards.
If you have a corp that is known for its capability and quality it’s probably going to be small and very focussed. If you then want to grow bigger (because :reasons:) that’s going to cause issues because the player pool for capable non-idiot players is quite small. The only way to grow significantly is by lowering your standards.
What happens next is that every wannabe lightweight wants to join because of what that corp stands for and over time this means the quality of the corp goes down, the good people leave because “F this sht” and the only ones that remain that the lightweights, and now the corp burns down to the ground. Good corp attracts idiots, idiots make corp bad, now bad corp burns and people who made corp good go elsewhere to make a new corp. Rinse repeat.
“more number more better” is a dumb approach.
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This is what happened to the once mighty CODE. alliance.
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You know, your arguments would come across better if you didn’t feel the need to lie, straw-man, and take things out of context in order to cobble together your points.
This is about participation in wardecs, not about getting more players. I mean, first, you’re complaining that players don’t participate in wardecs, don’t PvP, and corp-hop. Then when I talk about finding better ways to encourage players to do so, you shift the goalposts to “you just think more players=better and want EVE to be every other game”. Which isn’t even being discussed.
Apparently you have so many trigger points on these issues that you can’t even stay on topic of what you’re talking about. And you’re clearly incapable (along with multiple others here), of getting past your trigger points to have any clue what I actually mean as opposed to you assuming it’s one of your pet peeves.
Tell you what, I’m just gonna give you guys a bit of a time-out to calm down. Take some deep breaths, watch a sunset maybe. And then try to realize that IF wardecs are broken and pretty much always have been, and IF you think wardecs can and should be better, that maybe just maybe something newer has to be tried.
Rather than going with “let’s keep wardecs the same, but force players to stay in their corps.” Because honestly, that’s just more of the lame, weakass high-sec “elite PvPer” attitude that they need lots of weak, easy targets so they can get their griefing jollies, and it’s CCPs responsibility to hold them down so they can kick them.
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I’d differentiate between just wanting ‘more people’ to pad the numbers, and wanting more PvP and combat minded people…which the game does definitely need.
‘More people’ just creates churn, as the numbers are continually padded by new players who arrive, discover the game is not for them, and either leave or become an incessant pain in the posterior demanding the game be changed so that it is to their liking.
I think ganking performs the vital and thankless task of weeding out those who were never going to survive in Eve anyway. But we do need ‘more people’ of the sort who aren’t going to throw in the towel or have a fit the minute their 400K Venture gets blapped.
You are engaged in a logical fallacy known as ‘shifting goalposts’ - you vary your goals and claims in order to avoid responsibility.
Never said that, in fact I said the opposite.
never said that
Nope
That’s what you’re doing.
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To be fair, AFK players should be easy to kill. You pretend you aren’t trying to dumb the game down to protect carebears, but under what scenario should it be challenging to kill an AFK player? Is it actually ‘griefing’ to kill someone who doesn’t care enough to even be in the same room as their computer game?
Really? 'Cause this sure looks like you saying it…
Limit them to 5 and make them unable to leave corp. That’s keeping them the same, and pinning down the targets so they’re easier for you to kick. Guess you’re just having trouble keeping track, what with not being able to even separate truth and lies anymore.
Uh huh. How many more times do you need to be caught before you stop swimming in denial?
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I see the word “limit”.
That’s one point for Aisha.
The word “limit” represents a proposed change to the wardec system, invalidating Kezrai’s claim that Aisha wants to “keep wardecs the same”. In fact, as the evidence shows, Aisha proposed a “limit” to the wardec system.
SCORECARD
Aisha: 137
Kezrai: 0
And here is a case in point for what i posted…
EvE was never meant for solo play, the original Devs/founders even said that.
You can play EvE Solo…but in the end…solo players get to this point and stop having fun.
The person who originally objected to corp hopping was me. I think it encourages a lazy attitude in which people can just hop into a war corp and have safety in numbers in some 150 man fleet, and then hop back to some non-war corp and mine or haul in saefety…even though the war itself is still ongoing.
What you end up with is a ‘look at how big and bad I am’ mentality from people who’d struggle to fend off a corvette on their own. And yes, some of my own alts have past kills of that nature…which is why I increasingly don’t change corps and why I increasingly go solo.
The real problem with wardecs is that people are often avoiding the actual war and think its entirely about structures and not about personal combat improvement or any other form of skirmishes or ambushing or even solo against a war target.