As question says, I dont really understand what Triglavian (Slavic god of sun) invasions are bringing in.
I tried to fight them and they kicked my ass. Is this some content for big clans ?
My intention is not to criticiste, just to undersdand.
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Oh! I had no idea!
Checking this, âkikimoraâ is apparently slavic as well.
Thanks! I like this!
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This has introduced some other group pve activities to eve. Something which has generally been lacking. Itâs not for the largest most organised groups though, as its highsec based. Highsec is deeply scary for many people who spend their time in nullsec. After all, theres people who arenât blue in local!
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Never crossed my mind to look it up. Guess I should have, seeing how most everything else in EVE is also rooted in European (mostly Nordic) mythologyâŚ
Have a like for this most interesting revelation!
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CCP is unlikely to be able to answer âwhat is this expansion about?â, since they donât seem to have a very good handle on what anything else in EVE is about either.
It is fairly clear that they are trying different things to see what will engage players interest. They also have the limitation to work with that they are not very good at adding new content to the game without breaking lots of things. So they have to be careful with what they add to confine it to stuff that already works.
Triglavian Invasions = Abyssal Space + Incursions, two things that already exist, work, and get some player participation. So the concept is not inherently bad: letâs put some content that you canât really solo into high sec, letâs get players contesting over the battle sites and rewards, and letâs see if anything interesting happens.
The trick to making things interesting is to balance the risk, difficulty, and rewards.
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Risk is how likely you will be destroyed (by Triglavs or PvP or other).
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Difficulty is âhow much do I need to invest to put a ship together for this, how much SP do I need to succeed, and how possible is it for me to put a group of pilots together who can manage this fight reasonably well and reasonably fast?â.
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Rewards is âwhat do I get out of this, vs. how much time/investment I put in, vs. other things I could be doing, vs. the chance that some bottom-feeder will scoop my rewards?â
If any of these balance issues are too far off, people will not participate. Recent examples:
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Abyssal space: The risk, difficulty and reward balance is almost right. Some people participate, most people ignore.
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Resource wars: Could have been interesting group content. Could have served multiple purposes. Entirely wasted effort because the risk was manageable, but the difficulty (in the long run) was too high for the intended audience, and the rewards were so laughably, ridiculously bad that it seemed CCP was merely trolling players.
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Forward Operating Bases: Could have been interesting content that engaged groups to tackle FOB clusters and potentially open some room for PvP. Entirely wasted effort because the difficulty and rewards are completely out of touch with the nature of the content. Risk is also on the high side. End result of all the programming for it was simply adding a nuisance feature to the game.
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NPC Mining Fleets: Probably added at least partially to make it less convenient to farm/AFK mine. Could have provided an interesting PVE activity in fleet hunting. Might have opened up some PVP potential (like the old jetcan flipping days) if the flag system had been adjusted for it and if the rewards were worth fighting for. Again, programming effort wasted to create merely another nuisance that is occasionally interesting.
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Incursions: Sansha incursions were the last successful venture along these lines, IIRC. Risk, difficulty and reward were balanced enough to create steady interest in the content. They also serve as a training ground for fleet actions and coordinated efforts, so are dual purpose. Donât open up much potential for PvP but canât have everything I guess.
Of course, CCP has now chosen to nearly nuke Incursions in order to force people to try to engage their âlatest experimentâ. So far itâs not proving to be a fair trade.
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Yeah, the mythic angle I had caught onto earlier was the Slavic notion of âthe Three Zoryasâ. Another interesting bit of EVE lore worked into the story. They have a surprising amount of it, just not really accessible.
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@Solstice_Projekt has been talking about how triglavians are designed to make up for the lack of hostilities in hisec (general destruction and risk) that has occurred due to big nerfs to pvp.
More and more it seems heâs right.
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Triglav = three-headed (literally).
Itâs not necessarily the deity.
âOur players arenât fighting each other enough to create sufficient destruction. How do we solve this? Hmmm, letâs put in NPCs to fight and destroy them!â
Sadly, if this was CCPâs approach to âcreating conflictâ, I would not be the slightest bit surprised.
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Why do you see it as a bad move?
Iâm aware you asked her, but Iâm confused about your question.
Iâm not sure which âitâ you are referring to as âa bad moveâ.
If you mean the notion of replacing player-driven destruction with NPC/PvE driven destruction, itâs because it is counter to the core design ethos of EVE. It also does not play well to the design of the game engine, or to the skill set (?) of the game designers/programmers. They have proven again and again that the PvE content they come up with (except for a few of the older event designs) is not overly interesting to or engaging for players.
CCP needs to stop slapping small, one-shot bandaids on issues like âwe need to provoke more action in some areas, but hey, weâve pretty much designed things so players have no reason or opportunity to engage in interesting actions, so letâs, hmmm, letâs see⌠I know! We can add NPC âfake playersâ to drive the action! Then we donât need players at all! Well except to pay for subs and stuff.â (Yes, this Triglavian expansion is, IMO, a small bandaid fix.)
What they need to do is go back to the core design and player motivation for the game, and re-design certain game elements in a broad, game-changing manner to:
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Show new players that the âEVE storyâ that got them interested enough to try out EVE is there, itâs real, and itâs within their reach. Rather than the current NPE which says âWow, EVE is really boring, slow, simple and not at all engaging.â
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Promote fast entry into PvP, faster motivation to join group actions and the tools and content to encourage them to form groups.
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Teach players that combat and ship loss is a standard thing, itâs the whole reason why âpod clonesâ is a big thing, how to deal with ship loss and risk management⌠not risk avoidance.
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Alter the game mechanics so that players have a graduated scale of risk/reward, and implement âactivity funnelsâ that channel players of certain interest groups into content that interests them and helps engage them with other players (both co-operatively and antagonistically).
Solo/small-group, high sec, PvE, minimally rewarding content simply does not accomplish the things that EVE needs to stay relevant. They need to stop wasting time on âexperimentingâ and start re-envisioning how EVE works as a whole.
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I fear we may have been talking about different things.
Thanks for the reply all the same.
So what are you talking about?
Kezrai âŚ
Iâm honestly still baffled how apparently unaware people are of what CCP has been doing, is still doing, and is still going to do over the years.
Ever since Retribution, very slowly and in tiny, baby steps, theyâve been reducing player action and, worse, emergent gameplay itself. The single biggest nerf theyâve hit right at the beginning of the process, by pushing new players away from the idea of doing things outside of the newly created ânormâ using Suspect State (for a new player the equivalent of a 15min timeout with the potential of it escalating to (their equivalent of the) GCC aka players blowing them up) and the protection button.
No.
We need to stop. Whatâs happening in the game is literally what is happening in real life and politics. People keep talking about what politicians should do, or what they shouldnât do, or that theyâre stupid.
The equivalence is amazing! CCPâs propaganda is â â â â â â â amazing!
People keep talking, but doing nothing. Everyoneâs so in this â â â â â â â â belief of his words mattering that theyâve stopped being aware of the fact that 'only actions truly matter*, just like Hilmar said:
Watch what they do, not what they say.
Why keep talking, when we know theyâre not doing anything different? Why not act like we should, so we can make them do what we want? We obviously DO want them to do what we want, yet all that people do is writing impotent, irrelevant words on a forum.
Apparently most people havenât figured out whatâs going on and maybe there arenât even enough people around to actually care. People write about what CCP should do, but they never write about what the people, they themselves should do.
Thereâs a lengthy post written in 2017 laying it out for everyone to read,
yet no one seemed to actually grasp what is going on. Or no one cared.
Let me boil it down to a single, easily understandable line that, ironically, takes ages to be fully grasped.
Itâs a statement from my perspective as an emergent content generating,
freedom of interaction loving,
everyone-shooting,
no holds barred
capsuleer:
We are being literally replaced.
There is NO â â â â â â â doubt about it.
Itâs easily understandable after taking these points and mingling them together:
Dumb people are more likely to spend money than smart people.
Content creators are creative and in general are smarter than content consumers.
Content consumers are the number one target of the industry. (not counting indies)
All player activity influences the market.
All the market-relevant activities can be simulated.
All player activity can be replaced by NPCs.
Process the above, then move on.
Take your time, seriously, itâs important.
Okay, we have the above, now letâs move on:
Itâs Crowd Control Productions.
Content creators are much harder to control than content consumers.
The whole industry nowadays has figured out how to control the consumers.
In Retribution theyâve put the biggest nerfbat to emergent gameplay ever,
with apparently only a few left to actually talk about it,
because most of the others, who were like me, quitted for good and in sheer disgust.
Those people were the ones we would have needed when CCP released the PLEX Vault,
because they would have â â â â â â â riotted, burning the game to the ground.
First they made sure our new players would be deterred from emergent, surprising and potentially engaging gameplay, then they started taking them away from us by caring more about the NPE. Old players used to take care of retention, because CCP implemented literally nothing for it, because it wasnât actually needed. The system back then worked and looking at the released numbers I dare to say it worked better than what we have now!
The problem was that when old players are basically doing ânatural selectionâ, then the new players themselves wonât be stupid. The stupid ones quit and run away, the smart and strong stayed. From a greedy business perspective, as dumb people are easier to control and milk, this needed to be replaced.
I have little doubt that theyâre aware of all of this, yet they keep stomping towards that chosen path.
The goal is to make this a game for bears with token PvP elements in it.
Just look at Wars. Theyâre a Joke. Theyâre insulting. The end result - and CCP definitely was aware of how people would be moving forward - is that thereâs basically one big and a few smaller groups enjoying it, with no one else giving a single â â â â . Scipio released some stats about Wars somewhere. Itâs pretty much as it has been predicted.
People like PIRAT are basically the PvP side of Incursioneers. Tons of people doing content thatâs pretty much specifically made for them. Theyâre our token PvPers in highsec, so CCP can still claim EVEâs dangerous everywhere. Fact is that itâs PvE (youâre shooting a â â â â â â â structure) with the chance of PvP, (assuming someone fights back) because bears can just use holding corps and in that week of war they can farm back the cost of the structure.
Luckily for the Mercs there are people who fight back,
but I donât see that working out for the long run,
because PIRAT will definitely keep growing in active members.
But oh boy, how are they going to deal with this predictable outcome?
Is there anything they can do to make up for the lack of destruction
and the increase in structure spam and boringness?
Enter Triglavians.
First came burners with advanced AI.
Then came drifters with more advanced AI.
Now we have Triglavians.
Hostile NPCs allow CCP for tighter control of the economy. Example: Triglavians can (not could. the possibilities are virtually endless) literally scan ships for certain modules and prioritize those over others to give them a boost on the market.
Same works for ships, too.
Structures.
Everything.
Who needs gankers, or deccers, who are by nature hard to control,
when thereâs a lore-justified variable amount of NPCs,
who are perfectly controllable?
No one.
Weâll see how long PIRAT and CODE will last. Eventually, over time, CCP will introduce and change more and more of the game, with more and more of them leaving eventually. Itâs unlikely that CCP has to expect any serious backlash for continuous nerfs to emergent gameplay, considering that there wasnât any backlash for introducing the PLEX vault and removing exploration from exploration.
All that matters are the donkeys and the fact that any necessary player-generated content can be replaced with NPCs. Advanced NPCs allow for perfect control over rewards and the economy.
There.
I feel like Iâve written something like this, many years ago.
PS:
Iâm not ranting.
This is sad.
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The Invasion
Risk, what risk?
I know you are not talking about NPCs.
Yeah, no risk⌠Only 21 trillions destroyed in about year and as far I understand those are only ships that didnât leave abyss before timer.
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Thatâs not risk, that is just bads who didnât watch the video.
NPCs are not risk.
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Ok. I guess you run those sites in daily to be so confident? Or you are one of âthoseâ PvP guys?
Iâve been playing this game since 2005 and I have absoultely no idea whatâs going on with this expansion.