Aisha, I’m going to give you some friendly advice. You are jaded by your views. If that is what you get from what I am saying, than no point in talking or even debating with you. I gave you a plain and easily understandable issue, with examples. And your answer is assuming that effort is why I am not learning.
So no point in us talking if that is that case.
you are
You haven’t the faintest idea what you are incoherently babbling on about.
In the first place…what is ‘misleading’ about stating the FACT that a noob can only use 2 drones ? And, of course, those drones will have the lowest possible DPS for a noob. I just checked and about 100 DPS of the 300 or so for my latest Algos is from the 5 drones. A noob will get far less than 2/5 of that.
The various skills that one needs to get a ship to max DPS are not concurrent. And included in the 300 DPS is rigs, stabilisers, etc, etc…all of which have their own skills trees.
You have been utterly disingenuous in selecting only the difference between level 3 and level 4…but then I’ve come to expect such dishonest arguing from you.
As for it being ‘impossible’ for DPS to be increased by a factor of 4…I still have the fits for my first 17 DPS Condor. Even my Tech 1 Condor is now 32 DPS…and my Tech 2 Condor is 70 DPS. I make that a factor of 4…to anyone who can do basic maths.
You can include the training queue/improved implants loss aversion. This is a personal demon I fight.
That’s not how this game works. In fact, the game itself doing anything good for you is the antithesis of EvE.
This game and CCP are your enemy. Your only chances at being any good are to utilize player-made resources.
Expecting CCP to make any positive difference in EvE is silly. They gonna do what they gonna do. The only way to affect that is to pay or not.
Otherwise, friends are all you got. May you keep them between healthy boundaries.
I hope we all have wisdom enough to realize the universe of rational things and playing online computer games has a very small intersection, if any.
That is understandable, we can debate if that is good game design, or even if that is the problem on why the pvp is how it is now, or why people spend years playing and don’t get into the combat.
I think it is a very good thing to debate, without pointing fingers at each other.
Ha! Well now we are just having fun.
Is it good game design to rely on the players to fix the developers’ mistakes? A million times no.
Is CCP’s negligent parenting style good for PvP? That is harder to discern. If perhaps they were designing more player-controlled elements instead of instanced PvE content, I would say yes.
However, CCP unfortunately seems fixated on affecting PvE change whilst conveniently ignoring PvP in many ways. I liked the system changes into Pochven idea, but abyssal deadspace is bunk, and so are most of the indy changes I’ve witnessed over my year and some change playing.
Is the core concept good for PvP? I think yes, if only CCP appeared to be staying true to the core concept of negligent parenting. Instead, they seem to be quite nosy, as of late, adding things where they don’t belong.
Why do people spend years PvE and never PvP? They got sunk cost and couldn’t find a better PvE game in whatever time frame. I found better PvE games to play, if that’s the experience I want.
Still have yet to find a more brutal PvP game that holds my attention for more than a day.
Maybe expectations do not meet reality? Maybe barking at a corporation from a single soapbox is simply ineffective?
Because you’re selecting a special use-case scenario in order to lie with stats to make it seem like the damage difference between a new and veteran player is generally 4-5x, when in reality, it’s not even double for most of the ships in the game, and practically-speaking, after training for just a few days, isn’t even 50%. You’re absolutely doing this intentionally to be sensationalist in your cries about the skill gap, which in reality isn’t actually that large.
And none of those other skills affect damage. The only other possible difference is a tiny increase in going to T2 damage mods that requires Weapon Upgrades IV, which is like 30 hours of training.
The level 3 scenario is what players start out with, and any basic skill that’s not level 3 can be trained to level 3 within about an hour or two.
Go ahead and post the fits then.
Gave me some food for thoughts. When I play pvp in mmos like Shadowbane, it always felt good to out play, out think or even out skill someone. Even if is very basic compare to something like eve.
You understand this game better than I ever will, and the history of the game. I mean my biggest issue with the game is why did they remove the media player? lol.
I could very well be wrong with saying this but, for myself the reason I don’t get into the pvp or combat much is because the time invested, the risk, and knowledge would require so much out of you, and what would you get in return? Sure ganking a probe for a big pay day, or even group up for a massive battle. The pvp side of things has a HUGE learning curve, one of the biggest I seen in a mmo I think, and the reward for that time invested feels low, when many of the player base just use cloak and avoids fights, than to learn the pvp side.
So lets say I get a cheap ship go out and try to fight another ship. I lose, does the combat log tell me why I lost? In other pvp games, you have a tool kit and you understand the strenght and weakness of your class, but in eve the variables are insane, and losing never feels good. What is a worse feeling? Not understanding why you lost. Now each lost requires ISK, and you are losing resources as well. That just adds to the pain of it all, and the more you are willing to risk does not mean more knowledge you get.
That’s not how educated humans work, and you don’t particularly strike me as some caveman, so you should know better. If you won’t risk 1 dollar to win 10 dollars on a coin flip, then you’re either exceptionally poor, or need to intervene in your own psychology in order to get to the bottom of what’s likely causing many missed opportunities in your life. In either case, you’d have much greater priorities than playing an online video game.
For me, the choice is clear: I can either mine in a Venture for 1 million ISK per hour (I’m not even going to consider “not playing” as a viable option in this argument), or I can take a 3-billion-ISK ship into a wormhole and earn 300 million ISK an hour running sites. Even with regular losses, the latter would still make me considerably more money than the former per hour invested.
Your lack of enjoyment of in-game activities is separate from your aversion to risk. If you don’t find the game fun because it’s boring, don’t use PvP as a scapegoat for your feelings.
God, what rubbish. Where does it say anywhere that an Algos…or indeed any other ship that can carry 5 drones, is ‘special’ ? Loads of ships carry 5 drones ! You are the one dishonestly making it ‘special’.
Of course drones are included in DPS. It’s right there in the Fit window…which you probably haven’t seen since you last played 10 years ago, huh.
Because drones are a primary weapon platform on only a handful of ships, and because even then, it’s a single rank 1 skill that would require less than a day to get to level 4 so you could at least use 4 drones instead of 2.
You intentionally chose the Algos as an example, without even stating the amount of drones you’re using, to vastly inflate the damage differential between new and veteran players. Because you are a liar.
I get that. I am currently quite risk averse on my main. Even though I have a comfortable amount of ISK and SP to sit on, I am not doing anything with it out of fear of having a sht killboard.
This, I fear, is due to the fact that I am solo. If I fail, it is 100% my fault. If I were with a group, I might not feel as responsible for failure. Uninhibited, I might have more fun.
This is where other players come in. I often hear of killers messaging their foe, giving them ISK and advice. Corps will also give advice.
This is EvE’s strong suit: the community. PvP in other games happen in vacuums. PvP in EvE happens in various small groups all across various different strategic locations.
If players weren’t so amicable, this wouldn’t work. One must also wonder if that amicability is a direct result of the purposefully harsh environment. Chicken or the egg, who knows?
Do you practice being obnoxious…or does it just come naturally ? Your replies are just rude and snarling…I can almost see the spittle flying.
Who made you God Almighty in Eve ? It seems to me that the more supposedly ‘skilled’ a lot of people become in Eve, the more toxic and snarky and ’ I’m the best thing since sliced bread’ they become.
Agree, I must ask though, does some of the hate from pvps at CCP happens because all the variables are so intense, that when they do balance changes. It seems like it would make the pvp aspect of the game much more…tedious? Well not sure if it is the right word, but I could see CCP changing the meta and the pvp community groaning about it.
That’s a large opinion you got there 
Actually that isn’t true. They actually beat you.
Actually that was a very smart move of theirs. Its not cowering, its tactics and a smart one. Learn to EVE please
What’s funny is you don’t understand the most basic fact of that DPS Destiny knows I’m sure
Or simply, you’re wrong
We can settle this using the old ways if you want. I’ll roll a fresh character, and we’ll see how much of a relevant DPS gap there is. You can even choose what ship we use. I won’t do any training beyond the bare minimum necessary to put modules on the ship.
This is just a little side comment, but with the state of the world, and how stress people are. Video games have become a huge part of people lives, and help center them in ways.
My grandfather was a pretty cool guy, but when it came to fishing? he would get into a fist fight over it.
Because life is so stressful, something that gives you joy and pleasure tends to make people tend to have passion over the views they have of said game. And thus leads to each other arguing and getting annoyed because you don’t see things the way each other see it.
So I was chuckle when people say it is just a game, but that is just me. Anyway, I know some of you disagree with myself, and each other. Even through that, I’m still reading and learning. (while mining I might add lol.) So, we don’t need to be so aggressive to each other do we?