Indeed. Suggestions like “ring mining” are just low effort iterations of the same design, with probably similar flaws. Perhaps starting from scratch would be the better option. Quite the task …
I know what you mean …
… and I believe my post actually addressed that.
The act of mining, in a practical sense, isn’t really much different from running missions in a lvl4.
You sit there, do a few clicks, occasionally watch netflix while your weapon cycles, then lock the next target.
A true edible carrot would enable an Orcageddon. We all know the game now needs Orcageddons. Hulkageddons would pale in the light of sploding orcas 
On a stream some CCP devs said they’re going to look at the problem of virtually invincible brick-tanked Orcas mining in highsec.
That’s paraphrased, but it’s the essence of it.
I’m still waiting.
I hope the solution will involve things that go boom, not just nerfs on yield and resists or w/e. My evil heart is going thumpitythump now
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but I wouldn’t want to be a redcoat if there was -no- person cooking soup back at the camp.
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Then it’s a good thing that you wouldn’t have to worry about that, since there are a lot more people lining up to be soup cooks at camp than there are lining up to be redcoats. Sure, it may be only a step or two above slave labor, but you put that choice in front of people, and the grand majority will opt for the pot, or even cleaning the latrines and washing the skivvies, rather than shooting the gun.
all too true, but sometimes the first four folks who volunteer to light the grill are the last ones you want to give accelerant and matches to. 
If I had to make a case for mining excitement in an abstract way, I’d say that there was simply too much stuff.
People deride carebears for being what they are, but I think they were less ‘born’ and more ‘raised’ to be what they are. Essentially nullbears are farmed by shepherds for resources. They’re simple, low maintenance, and if you don’t like the bears you get you can fleece the ones you have, kick them out the fence, and find ones you like better. Letting the bears graze on whatever they want isn’t a problem when there’s lots to be had.
If things were scarce, though, then mining would be exciting, and people would make it so. If it was rare enough it was worth fighting over, then people would fight over it. They’d be possessive of it. For this reason, I thought mixing up the ore locations between low, null, and high was a good idea in general.
I think mining is not engaging because your attention budget is supposed to be split between being social with your mates and looking out for your enemies, but that’s not how we make our appeals to new players. “Join us, make easy money with no real effort. Just give us our cut. You’re not playing Eve properly if you’re working for your PvP gear.”
Things are out of whack because making them this way is a very reasonable position to take. Try to take their stuff, or put a dent in their income, and people complain. They see what they’re losing in a very tangible way without contemplating whether they ever appreciated in in the first place.
After all, how could someone be happier with less, right? That’s what people would say. Myself, I’ve never seen any correlation between having lots of stuff and being happy. I believe happiness and satisfaction are, to a great degree, a matter of being capable of appreciating what you do have and putting less stock in the things you don’t.
You can’t explain this rationally, though. Feelings of satisfaction and happiness are by definition not rational things but people will none the less try to force them into a rational framework. If there’s one thing I like about Solstice, it’s that he seems to be able to be happy with whatever. He just keeps rolling on the way he rolls. That people can’t understand that is the source of much friction.
I’m not sure what point I wanted to make anymore. I seem to have gone all over the place, but I think it was that mechanical changes can only go so far in making things interesting and that people may have to swallow some bitter medicine if they are seriously wanting to make something like mining an activity of interest.
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They used the carrot to make the cake
does that mean we can get portal guns?\
Kakarot?
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That’s correct. There’s this problem with “free will”, though, mixed with a lack of self awareness.
Should their lack of self-awareness mean everyone else should tolerate them? No.
Do we dismiss the idea that they’re not at fault for who they are?
Then we’d effectively cement the idea that they’re just reactive victims.
Personal growth is important. People are being raised into believing they’re perfect as they are …
… which means no personal growth whatsoever.
Ignorant isn’t Strength …
… and definitely no excuse.
Not gonna invoke Godwin’s Law.
That’s correct, more or less. Satisfaction is about working and successding. If everyone was wise, people would stop buying stuff they solely buy because they believe they want it. While I’m all for it, the world’s economy does not yet allow for that, but global changes in this regard are already in the making. Sadly the generation this affects the most is the generation least capable of understanding why the execution might not be the best for everyone involved: No privacy whatsoever, with everything being recorded.
That is true. Thank you. 
Comes from a life filled with hardships, many of which I’ve gone through deliberately for personal growth,
and challenges I’ve had to overcome … and still do.
Life doesn’t revolve around fun, but the simpletons who suffer from a crippled sense of their own emotional spectrum …
… will never understand this, because they’re unaware of how shitty and shallow their lives actually are.
What can’t be explained rationally?
You can’t rationally explain how having more stuff does not equate to being more happy. The assertion itself demonstrates a person is likely already shoehorning an irrational-by-definition emotion into a rational box.
Like trying to explain what colors look like to a person born blind. If you can see colors, you don’t need them explained to you. If you have never seen them, they can not be explained to you. If you feel happy, you do not need it explained to you. If you have never felt it, no words can explain it.
Ask anyone suffering from depression or mental disorder how difficult it is to convince another person that they feel the way they do, or experience what they experience. Because an outside observer doesn’t feel, and has never felt, the effects of mental illness they can and will dismiss it as if it doesn’t exist. For many, I imagine the first step in getting help is finding someone with enough faith in them to believe they are suffering without any discernable proof of a problem from an outside observer’s point of view to use in a rational explanation of that problem. At least, this is the impression I get from people who come to me for help.
The pursuit of wealth is rational because it, in theory, would allow you to acquire whatever makes you happy. It doesn’t always work, though, because having money does not enlighten you on what makes you happy, and nobody else knows, either. A lot of important things can’t be purchased. People who can get everything they want can still be unhappy. Until a person understands what brings them satisfaction they can’t really work on being satisfied, but instead rely on a rational rule of thumb that they just hope will work for them.
Nobody sets out to waste their life to a meaningless end, but it does happen. People are blind to what’s truly important to them and give it up in exchange for what they rationally believe is more valuable. At the end of their lives when there’s finally time for introspection people sometimes realize the mistakes they’ve made and how they cheated themselves out of what they really wanted.
I am hardly an authority on this. I am really just an emotional person who hates to see people unhappy. Words do not really convey the complex thoughts I have on ideas that I don’t even think we have words to describe, so I’ve probably done a poor job of explaining this. Bottom line is that I don’t think you can tell a person how to be happy. At best, you can guide them in a good direction and hope they realize for themselves what it is for them.
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I feel like there’s a language barrier.
You’re talking about the fact that people wanting to buy stuff they do not actually need is irrational in itself?
Or do you believe that it’s not possible to rationally explain it?
People lacking the self awareness and introspection required to go to the “bottom” of their desires …
… doesn’t mean they couldn’t explain it. They’ve just never learned how.
Being a shallow, materialistic automaton is beneficial for capitalism.
I’ve written a long ass post with lots of text, but I’m just going to save it in case I need it later. I can’t really post it,
because I’m not yet sure I actually understand what you’re talking about.
It addresses more of your post, but goes way beyond of the scope of the thread.
Emotional and rational*
Learn German. 
If that was the case …
… advertisements wouldn’t exist.
Lots of people actively believe that buying ■■■■ makes them happy.
It doesn’t last, of course, but they don’t realize.
Instead they just go buy something new.
They’re being told what makes them happy …
… because they’ve been raised into a world where everyone convinces them that it’s the case.
Extremely beneficial for capitalism, btw.
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When I say ‘you can’t tell a person how to be happy’ I mean in an honest and earnest way that would definitely work for them. Trying to convince someone to buy stuff from me would be a completely different thing, to me, and I would not be any good at it.
I see a lot of the ways that advertising manipulates people into trying to solve their problems by spending money. I’ve often said people know what they want, but not what makes them happy. Advertising has little to do with happiness and everything to do with want because want is a primal impulse everyone has and understands how to act on *now*, while happiness is a state of enlightenment that comes from knowing yourself well enough to focus on the things that will matter to you in the *future*.
It is not possible to explain to people that satisfying wants does not automatically lead to long term happiness in any rational, incontrovertible, or provable way. They will almost invariably prioritize the easy to understand immediate payoff of wants over the abstract benefits of a happy future self no matter what you say unless they already know better from personal experience or self enlightenment.
Without that enlightenment, even if what you say seems perfectly rational and reasonable to you it doesn’t to them because they don’t have access to the same information that is the basis of your reasoning. Rationality is a sequential process. Without an understanding of your basis, a person won’t reach your conclusions. The basis being your own growth as a person which won’t translate to a second party by words alone. Therefore, I don’t think you can rationally explain to a person how to be genuinely happy. They must find that answer from within themselves.
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Mining and ratting need to be combined.
Waves of rats that have low bounty payout and perhaps get more and more difficult, or some other means of requiring the miner to defend their claim while a mining player mines the ore. Merge the belts and anomalies/missions. Require level 1/2/3/4/5 combat to access certain ore types. No more undock>warp2rock>F1+F2 and go get coffee. Missions need to have additional rats spawns added after the initial clearing so people have to actively defend occasionally, and not the measly ones that can be taken out with a single Hobgoblin I.
I want you to run my home country.
Or all of them.
Too small.
Extrapolate what we already have and you will notice they will eventually replace all mission rats with the triglavian AI combined with the data gathered from all these arena fights. Additional spawns do nothing, because the missions, as they are, are too easily beaten by simply flying a stronger ship.
You don’t touch at all on one aspect which would actually be more helpful …
… and cause a big, irrational outcry amongst farmers and bears: The lack of proper ship restrictions for missions.
Like, for example, people using battlecruisers or battleships for level 3 missions.
If that wasn’t a thing people would need to actually learn how not to explode.
Additional spawns solve nothing.
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