Who of you want the forever war to end?

(Anataine Deva) #21

As soon as they abolish slavery they maybe too.

(Aria Jenneth) #22

Uh … I can’t believe I’m doing this but I’m going to have to agree with Veiki maybe a little bit.

The war’s awful on its face: it’s a slow, bitter grind that nobody can ever really win. It’s also presently serving as a kind of pressure valve for the more intense kinds of partisan-- letting them fight, and maybe die, for causes they believe in. (I’m not talking about us capsuleers here.) The alternative considering how high emotions have been running might be all-out war.

Only … it’s been years. The war’s older than my oldest memories, by a lot. It’s starting to develop a reputation, including among partisans, as something pointless and counterproductive. Some of those same people are seeking other means of acting on their beliefs. … Pressure’s growing again.

Maybe it’s time to end it somehow. I’m not sure what might replace it, though.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #23

Arguing for the end of the Pendulum Pretense as a prelude or means for peace is one of the more ridiculous notions I have ever heard. That is quite literally its purpose right now. It is the corral where the dumber (or willfully ignorant) of the capsuleers get to pretend they are fighting for something and let their steam out before it builds up to unsustainable levels of pressure.

It’s where you get to pretend something is being done about the insert whatever agenda and factional aspirations you might have. It’s the pressure valve that keeps discontent and hostility from creating an all too real war, through the bloodsport and distraction it offers.

So no, you’re not going to be able to get it removed or shut down. The cowards and profiteers in our very own factions would fight tooth and nail to maintain the status quo so the all too real hostilities and problems between our factions become a problem for the next generation to handle and the troubles of all too necessary wars stay confined in a nice little bloodsport arena that doesn’t matter to anyone involved, instead of where they might themselves be affected negatively.

Be very very careful what you wish for. If we get the Pendulum Pretense shut down… what will ensue is all too real war.

Let’s hope you succeed, shall we?

(yellow parasol) #24

Apparently there’s a misunderstanding here. i never said i wanted peace. i’m asking if peoplei want to end the war. that doesn’t necessarily lead to peace. What it always does, though, is leading to change.

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #25

I have a feeling that if you ended the current war as it is, then it wouldn’t take long for the major Factions to declare all out war on each other. Without the buffer zones in place for controlled bloodletting I fear complete disaster would follw for the Empires.

(Lady Ayeipsia) #26

The forever war shall not end until the sacred teapot is liberated from the vile blues and they are driven beyond the ends of space for the horrible action they propogated against the Glorious Red Federation!

What? That’s the Forever war… You know…

“So I’m hungry, I have pot noodle with no pot, but wait, I’m in the crypt right? I knew it was here somewhere, Tron and I had argued about it just the night before, stupid “Teapot of Justice”, I was sick of the old rituals, dressing up in those Minmatar slave girl costumes and drinking lemon tea while watching Podpilot Idol. To hell with it, I looked around and there it was mounted on a plinth adorned with the Purple Arms and next to the Forbidden Toaster of Desire. There was nothing else for it, I grabbed the teapot, filled in the potless pot noodle, added water, pew pew with the shooty gun and it was hot as hell. Mmmmmm sacrilegious.
Just as I’m scoffing the last few chemically altered wheat noodles in he walks, flanked by General Arkaiser and Commander Thrace. I have to say, while it was clearly a grave moment in New Eden history, the look on his face was great. He erupted into one of his great rants, I didn’t even listen to the words, I knew by the look on the faces of Sarkus and Arkaiser there was no backing down now, we’d gone too far, just as I knew that Thrace would eventually side with us.
I walk straight past them and out, opening my communicator and signalling General Raivi, “The time has come, the revolution begins today. RED DESTINY!”…”

(yellow parasol) #27
  • You can stick your head into the sand, and let fear of the unknown dictate your life.

  • You can keep living in the comfort that everything will always be the same. You’ll ignore the nagging thought that you’re fighting in lowsec, only because the empires see you as a problem.

Either way, you’ll keep living as the empire’s puppet, doing what they want, where they want. Just think about how completely nuts it is! We’re capsuleers, they’re afraid, and we just let them fool us into a nonsense that only serves them and a few nutjobs who like calling themselves Commanders and other nutjobs who live in a fantasy world of believing what they do actually matters for the bigger picture!

(Aria Jenneth) #28

No … I’m aware of what you indicated, sir.

It’s just, for my own part, I don’t think a relative peace is something to be despised or taken for granted. The strains between our various peoples aren’t really over ordinary, pragmatic things like territory and resources; they’re over foundational, even existential, issues. To seemingly everyone, any great war that follows will be one of basic perspective, with themselves cast as the heroes. It seems like such a thing won’t end pragmatically until and unless people’s appetite for bloodshed and revenge (or justice, if you like) has been spent. That could happen through victory, or, it could happen when people have lost so much that they loved that the ongoing pain from continuing to fight our differences out becomes unbearable.

It feels really good to get to be the hero, so, that might be a while. And we, capsuleers, in particular, are a little removed from the people who’d be doing the dying. A lot of inhabited planets could be glass and dust, and we’d probably still be drooling for blood.

It’s probably lucky the choice isn’t up to us.

(Pieter Tuulinen) #29

Most of the real Loonies are in wormholes, ain’t they?

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #30

Ah but you see we know we’re not right in the head. This by definition means we aren’t loonies, just somewhat…abnormal.

(Lasairiona Raske) #31

Perhaps, but meh. I’m a strong woman with strong opinions.

(Arrendis) #32

What war?

You mean the pendulum games? Why would you want to end a voluntary sporting event?

Nobody’s forced to be there, and the empires make a fair amount of money off of the maniacs murdering one another for nothing. The civilian populations don’t care—they’re not at risk. Really, the Pendulum’s just missing some good and proper media coverage with handicapping, profiles on the particular ‘athletes’, and a few fantasy leagues. Get those bets in now, people! Tune in to NESPN!

But really, it’s adorable that you call it a war.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #33

You haven’t spent much time on Galnet, have you? There is media coverage, there are score systems, ‘athlete’ profiles and enough fantasy leagues and bets going on that it’s a sizable chunk of economy across New Eden.

(Arrendis) #34

Eh, I meant aimed at the capsuleer audience. It needs to be higher profile.

(Aldrith Shutaq) #35

Nobody really disputes that this bizarre purgatory of a war should end, but everyone will dispute how it ought to end.

The scenario that is likely most agreeable to all side would be a cessation of hostilities and the restoration of the pre-war borders. Clean, simple, and does not lay blame, responsibility or consequence upon any party. However, that would fail to recognize how these wars started.

It is high time that the Thukker Tribe be declared a rogue nation on par with the pirate entities, and that the Minmatar Republic suffer sanctions for its tacit approval and cooperation with the Elder Fleet invasion that destroyed CONCORD headquarters in Yulai and launched an unprovoked full-scale invasion of the Amarr Empire.

The Thukker Tribe has proven itself a threat to all CONCORD signatory nations, including the Gallente Federation, as the Caldari State, under its then leader Tibus Heth, was able to launch an invasion of their own to take Caldari Prime in their own capital system due to the Elder attack, resulting in a years-long standoff and destructive battle to re-secure their space. Consequence and blame must be laid upon the parties guilty of these events, and it lies squarely upon the Thukker Tribe and their sympathizers within the Republic. Bounties for Thukker warships, outlaw status for their caravans, and severe limits upon their ability to trade with the civilized cluster are just a few potential actions the intergalactic community could take. Similarly, the Republic itself must suffer some consequence as well, with economic sanctions until some form of reparation is made being the most obvious route. Needless to say, all individuals involved in the Elder Fleet’s production and function also must be hunted down and brought to justice, either in CONCORD or Imperial courts. To fail to do so would be to abandon all concepts of accountability on the international stage, and further weaken the institution of CONCORD, the treaties it supposedly enforces, and the security it provides.

For all those who will predictably be reticent of these suggested actions, remember that CONCORD also protects the Republic from invasion by the Empire. Minmatar everywhere should be invested in its wellbeing for that very reason. Some of your people have committed a crime against the entire cluster, and you should wish to see them brought to justice rather than go down with them for their wrongdoings.

Staying true to one’s word is a cornerstone to the function every civilized society. The cluster cannot deal with nations that hold daggers behind their backs as they shake hands and smile as a front. Justice must be done and amends made before we can have a real peace.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #36

Sure. We’ll get right on that once you release all the people you’ve taken (and continue to take on a daily basis), and make reparations for the Day of Darkness and the centuries since.

Oh gosh, you won’t? Well that’s a right gosh darned conundrum then, isn’t it?

(Arrendis) #37

Well, you’ve got a few people in this thread disputing that it should end, soooo… gonna have to say you’re wrong on that score.

So, let me see if I understand your point here. You’re asserting that the Caldari State, its governing megacorporations, its military, and its people, should hold the Thukkers, and the Minmatar Republic as a whole, responsible for their retaking their homeworld?

I’m pretty ok with that, sure. I don’t think the Caldari are going to be too upset with us, and I think even you have to agree, the Gallente aren’t going suddenly disown us and side with the guys who want to enslave them all.

Tell you what, let’s get right on that after the illegal Imperial slaver raids end, hey?

(Veikitamo Gesakaarin) #38

I might remark that the sentiment of, “I’m all for ending the war, but only on my own terms,” Is the reason why the CEWMPA conflict persists. Those who decry it as not a “real” war don’t seem to recognize the core intractable issues and rivalries it represents. All the CONCORD signatories involved are abiding by the maxim of not pointing your weapon unless you intend to shoot it – the CEWMPA is a signal of that intent to do so. Those who balk at the lack of resolution over CEWMPA seem less cognizant of the fact that all CONCORD signatories have been, and continue to, prepare for all out war in an escalating arms race. CONCORD has created a standoff at present but that does not change the nature of brinksmanship as each signatory looks to who will blink first.

(Aldrith Shutaq) #39

The Minmatar factions already blinked, followed shortly by Heth’s State. Frankly it is nothing short of miraculous that black day did not create a black decade of death and destruction. It was only by the good graces and restraint of the Empire and Federation did the cluster not erupt in total war on June 10th, YC 110. You are all welcome for that, by the way.

My proposition does not take into account any of the past thousand years of history and grudges for any side, only what happened on that particular day. The State and Federation seem to have already made some sort of amend with the treaties binding the partial Caldari rule of Caldari Prime and other acts of conciliation made since the destruction of the CN Shiigeru. That just leaves the Empire and Republic, who have not made any signs of peace besides Shakor’s attendance at Her Majesty Catiz I’s coronation. In my opinion the first real step would be to isolate the Thukker Tribe as the primary instigators of the current state of affairs and make them answer for it. It’s all rather simple and straightforward, in my eyes.

(Mizhara Del'thul) #40

In your eyes, which carefully goes glassy when they stray upon a thousand years of unrelenting Imperial aggression and subjugation. It’s never that simple, Aldieboo, and you quite simply don’t get to pretend the Empire’s crimes has ceased to exist because it’d be convenient.

You know the prerequisites for a peace. If you’re not working towards them, I’ll have to assume you don’t want peace.