If you are ever made representative of Minmatar interests in any official capacity, I might take the time to tell you to stick that demand up your arse in a more official manner. Until then, stick it up your arse.
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It’s not a real war. It’s a controlled ant farm where the Empires send their most jingoistic psychopaths to compete for national pride and body counts.
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Well, applying the same standard, maybe you should consider taking the time to tell yourself where to stick your demands, since you don’t even represent the authoritative voice in your own household.
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Let’s not pretend either of us are official representatives of anything but our own sentiment, Aldieboo. You’re not the only one who gets to sit down and lay out ‘propositions’ for the purpose of grandstanding or swaying baseliners.
The simple fact remains. You know as well as I do that your crimes aren’t going to go away. There is nothing to build a peace on, until those issues are solved. There’s no need to keep pretending so hard. Be honest.
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It had nothing to do with Imperial or Federal restraint and more to do with the threat of CONCORD intervention that curtailed further consolidation of the limited strikes through further military escalation.
I might disagree. The CEWMPA conflict prepares combatants for what a real war is actually like: Young men and women enlisting thinking it’s all a grand adventure in the naivety of youth only to learn that just as much as they might the enemy they must learn to fight their own disillusionment. That they’ll spend most of their days stuck in the menial grind of boring but necessary tasks and look forward to the chance of combat because fighting is a reprieve, and the visceral nature of killing is euphoric. All the while they will have to witness their friends dying in the most horrific of ways – burned alive when a plasma line breaches; holding their guts inside when a piece of high velocity shrapnel disembowels them; or if they’re lucky maybe just a relatively quick asphyxiation in hard vacuum.
They will come to realize that just because one considers a war just, it does not change that all wars are destructive. Just as their friends die, so will they likely have to see all the people who do have to pay the price, the common citizen, reduced in dignity as internal refugees when the frontlines ebb and flow as their livelihoods and families are reduced to ruin. All the while questioning themselves, “When will it all end, where is the light at the end of the tunnel?” And the truth is, “Who knows?”
In the end, all that’s left is to just keep on fighting, because that’s really just the only thing you do know. And when peace does arrive, when everyone is just so damned tired of it all you’ll likely find you end up with less than you wanted, and more of what you never asked for.
Because that’s war.
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Then don’t pretend that your demands constitute policy for anyone but yourself.
The Elder Fleet blew their way through CONCORD. We blew through the Elder Fleet. If you really believe we couldn’t have fought through their response fleets and into the orbit of Pator, you are just being foolish.
…with a superweapon it’s been since established was a one-use-only deal.
Tell me again how that engagement would’ve gone without the superweapon?
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I’m sure we’d see, should any officials be stupid enough to try promoting any contrary policies. This millennia of atrocity is engraved in our very bones, Aldieboo. It’s not going to go away until it has been resolved, no matter how much you’d like to pretend it doesn’t matter.
And again, you know this is true. It is frankly sad to see when one of the few staunch Imperialists out there retreats into such grandstanding and drivel, knowing it is pure fantasy.
So you had two shots of that weapon, did you? No? Fantasies does not become you, Aldieboo.
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Just without any local capital ship forces once the CONCORD cynojammer systems were brought back online. Which is my point, the Empire did not do so out of restraint or magnanimity but the reality that they would be unable to jump their capital forces into the Republic. The ones that were not colliding into each other in Kor-Azor and elsewhere anyway.
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If it “prepares combatants for what a real war is actually like”, that’s kind of a statement that it’s not a “real war”. It’s a bloodsport. And a bloodsport might be useful for training crew, it might be handy for hardening participants and inuring them to the suffering, but it’s still just a bloodsport.
What differentiates a “real war” from a “pointless bloodsport” is the strategic picture. Is there a way to actually win? Is there even a way to lose? Or is it all just a meaningless orgy of blood and violence for the entertainment of the masses, feeding the egos of the ruling class, who have no intention of ever letting it end, who don’t want to win any more than they want to lose?
Just privileged elites, playing with their toys until they break… so they buy new ones, and keep on playing.
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A bloody slog with us still as the victors.
It’s not pure fantasy, Mizzy, as much as your tiny warmongering brain might have difficulty grasping the concept of peace. Our nations (all four of them) put aside their differences and pasts when they mutually agreed to create CONCORD to prevent all-out war from destroying the cluster as we know it. All it takes is a few peacemakers like the late Heideran VII, blessed be his name, to realize little is to be wrought from fighting and much more to be gained from cooperation. Now please, let better minds make the treaties and go back to grinding your teeth in bitterness, preferably silently.
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While you continue to wage a war upon our people, within your very own borders, it is pure fantasy. While your Navies continue to wage a war upon our people within our borders, it is downright delusional. If there is one lesson you should have learned by now, it is that you do not have what it takes to break us all, whether through military might or through a false peace.
You know the path to peace. It is rather pitiful that you would oppose it, in the end, knowing as you do the reality of what your Empire does to its enslaved population.
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Let’s at least get the numbers and the causes right: No Jove, no CONCORD treaty.
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And if I were to bring up the terrorist attacks and illegal Republic Fleet raids into Imperial territory, you’d simply say they were completely justified and shrug it off.
I pity your terrible soul, Mizzy. You want to make things worse than they already are simply because you are selfish and hard-headed enough to not care of the consequences so long as your own rage is assuaged. You haven’t a clue on how to help, so you want to burn it all down, even if you are consumed in the flames as well. Fine then. You’ll have to die a final death, and so will everyone who thinks as you do before things can move forward.
For the record, I do not oppose emancipation for the Minmatar. But it must happen on our own terms, not yours. In the meantime, I support better treatment for them, and a Scriptural-based moral standard to be applied to their treatment throughout the Empire. They are people, just as human as the Ni-Kunni, Khanid, and even the True Amarr. They deserve enlightenment and prosperity same as all people do. But that is our job to make happen, not yours. We bear the weight of our past sins, and we take responsibility for our future as an Empire and Faith.
Now for the love of God, piss off.
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They are. I am in favor of a war to end this conflict, putting enough pressure on the Empire that it’ll have to choose between fighting a war that’ll be so costly even if victory was a certainty, that it’d collapse as a result, or forging a path to true peace by releasing our people. When you hold our people as slaves, it is justified to fight for those people. Abandoning them to the Empire’s treatment, which you know is as inhumane as it gets, would be an ethical and moral atrocity.
Oh I care, allright. I am just not so cowardly as to prefer an atrocious status quo that’d perpetuate itself for ages, forcing the enslaved to pay the price for our convenience and false peace. A war would be genuinely horrifying, yes. It would however be the lesser evil, and in the end it’d be an actual end to this conflict.
Pity me if you wish. Your Empire is what created me. If your sins are coming home to roost, perhaps it is how it should be. When the war comes… it’ll be because you created the enemy that will knock down your gates. It didn’t have to be this way. It still doesn’t. All it’d take, is one painful acknowledgment of the crime, and atonement.
Sure, your Empire would weaken and face a time of trouble if you abolished slavery. That would be the price paid. What it also would do, is gain allies among enemies, who would see a truly righteous path be walked by Empire and support every step along the way.
Of course, it won’t happen. Your pride stings too hard. The neck is too stiff to bend under the weight of the crimes. In your pride, you will keep walking the path straight towards destruction of what we both call home, and neither your God nor our spirits can even know what will come once that happens.
Well golly, that will fix everything. Your impotent half-measures will do nothing and you know it. If it was even remotely possible, breeding facilities and slaver raids wouldn’t be a thing today.
That you acknowledge it as a sin is a step in the right direction. Atonement is the next step. I wonder if you and yours will ever have the courage to face that one.
Your God has no power here. He never did. You want something done, do it yourself. Pretty sure you don’t have the power either.
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How DARE we fight back! However can we expect you to stop the slave raids and aggression if we won’t stop retaliating?!?
“Dammit, we’ll tell you when we’re done raping you! Let us finish! So… nnng… close…”
You bear the weight of your current ‘sins’, too.
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That’s not fighting back, that’s straightforward aggression.
Minmatar Republic has attacked the Amarr Empire, while they were living peaceful lives. It’s the Empire who can retaliate, not you. Though, I am not sure you are capable of understanding this. I hope all other readers will understand this though and will see that you just post more lies.
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I would say it’s more given the current framework, they know they cannot win CEWMPA insofar as delivering a decisive end to the other side, but while no side can win, any side can lose. An example of this would be the loss of State occupied territories auctioned by former Executor Tibus Heth. When the Federation saw that the State under Tibus Heth was unwilling to intervene in the situation with the Caldari Navy it lead to a what would be considered a loss of credibility in deterrence. That failure emboldened the Federation to conduct Operation Highlander in the belief that similarly the State under Heth would not intervene the full military in the operation – which he did not.
CEWMPA is a meatgrinder, yes, but it maintains a particular status quo that CONCORD signatories feel compelled to sponsor insofar as their mistrust of the other side makes them feel it to be necessary to do so.
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Kim Let me give you a quote from a ancient text “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”
The current framework that they, as members of the CONCORD inner council, designed and approved? The one they designed to be unwinnable?
Yeah. They don’t want to win. If they wanted to be able to win, they’d have built in a way to win.
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