Why be a cog?

I don’t get the issue here. The vast majority of industrialists aren’t personally getting their own materials. Why does it matter that you need to ship in compressed ore from other parts of space? So does everyone else. If you can’t compete, that sounds like a you problem.

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While I can’t say I’m a fan of this new mineral distribution, it has had one amazing side effect.

You don’t see too many high Sec miner / manufacturers going around thinking what they mine is free anymore, since they have to go buy the most expensive minerals.

If we could finally drive that brain dead mindset out of the game, it would be worth the inconvenience of a few more buy orders a hundred times over.

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Fixed.

Get an expedition frigate and stop whining.

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Sad reality is being a solo miner who dreams of building and making a profit is not a great goal.

Simple economics here.

As you increase in volume you mine more. Sell more make more profit. You as 1 solo character miner can’t compete with established volume miners.

Indy has ever more shifted to trading the mats more than sourcing them. Eather from trade hubs in HS/Supply deals with organizations and anything else. To be a good industrialist requires to be a skilled trader/diplomat/businessman. This is really why I like the new mineral and mats in building now as @Scarlett_LaBlanc said. People are thinking on how to source these mats their mindset is shifting to more complex thinking.

EVE is a business game. You make deals. complex deals you plan. I am happy CCP is working towards this with the new changes.

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Am I going to have to create a master post of your repeated complaints?

I’m sounding like a broken record but it is because you keep starting threads on the order of every month with nothing but complaints: what have you tried new? What has worked and what hasn’t? What have you learned from what you’ve tried?

My quote from your previous thread is directly applicable here:

Kind of expected this thread to brew nicely but nothing.

I rate this thread a 1/10 for content.

How is it that you know what the vast majority of industrialists are doing? You don’t.

Next, when I do indy stuff, what percentage of the build I can directly source has everything to do with the go or no go decision. By directly source I mean mine, salvage, loot or extract myself. I have +2B going to market next week, T1 & T2 mods, T1 & T2 hulls and a few faction ships - 70% - 80% or more of the mats sourced from myself.

The 4 other big indy guys I know do the same.

Indy by arbitrage don’t bring home the bacon.

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Do tell, what is the cost of say…of blue ice when you are using an Orca and three exhumers for the past two years. If you use the word “opportunity” you are disqualified.

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Calm down Karen.

And the recent price rise in Isogen just parked your goods on the price ladder for two weeks. Those items you did reprice lost money and now you are getting out the credit card for isk so you can buy your next tranche of mats. And you don’t even know where Isogen comes from.

Wrong context. The op is a karen.

Wal-Mart vs the Smith Family Grocery Store.

But is that a good thing?

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We are set in a far era in EVE where we don’t have a lot of corporate regulations protecting us small guys. That’s how I personally justify it. Part of it is simply CCP wanting us to box and that is built into the nature of the game.

is it a good thing? I do wish the smaller guy could compete vs the boxers. It makes me sad but I understand why I guess.

People who think of themselves as industrialists might, but the people who produce enough that it’s worth calling them industrialists generally do not. There just isn’t enough time to do that.

There probably isn’t enough time in a week to mine the input materials for what I make in a week, regardless of whether or not I would have access to those materials (and because of how moons are distributed, I don’t and I wouldn’t even before regular ore was changed two years ago). I’m not a particularly big producer. I can think of many people who build a lot more than I do.

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I can only speak for myself.

I manufacture T2 modules which I sell.
I do this, in general, by buying the inputs I need and selling the finished product.
I look at the supply chain, and if there is a substantial saving/value add in my making one of those components then I will. On a case by case basis. The default view when going into a new product line is “can I just buy-make-sell at a profit?”.
I have a real world background in a lot of this.

I make an adequate profit (billions of ISK per month) on a scale where I can disrupt my local market in Amarr. I try not to as I’d rather milk the cow all year than just have steak tonight.

Right, that’s the background.

An industrial operations, run by an “industrialist”, doesn’t have to do everything from raw materials to finished product. Eve is a rare game compared to others that have “crafting”. Eve is very complex and allows supply chains to emerge. Eve is a very good business simulator because of that.
This complexity is deliberate - it causes interaction between players. CCP have driven changes that way.
I think this is a good thing by the way.

You rarely see in the real world a fully integrated rock to consumer product business. Rio Tinto produce refined materials. Walmart/Tesco buy (and may brand) completed goods, contract with a hauler to ship them to retail.
There’s a company that specialises in making tin cans but don’t mine tin, but they don’t make baked beans.
Ford doesn’t make the electronics that go in their cars. Heck, Ford sometimes aren’t even making the car they sell.
What they do is focus on being good at their bit and getting supplied by others in the marketplace that are good at doing their bit. Either just by purchase of by buying with a long term strategic relationship.
Sometimes you may look at your supply chain and go “there’s a real profit in there and I could do that step” - but you do that while being aware of the opportunity costs, and the risks of doing it.

For example in Eve: I make Inertial Stabiliser IIs. Not a huge profit, but a nice little reliable earner if you don’t swamp the market. They need a bunch of components, one of which is the Inertial Stabiliser I, which is made from asteroid materials.
I could make a profit buying the materials, making the T1 part and selling it on the market (where I buy it). I could thus make more profit (rather than giving it to my T1 supplier through the market) by making the T1 I need but i don’t. because it takes time and (importantly) manufacturing capacity I can more profitably use for T2 work.
This is Opportunity Cost.
Fun as mining is, it takes me away from making a profit.
Ask yourself, deep in you heart “why am I making this…?”

Read “Wealth of Nations”.

If you want to make a something from complete scratch - good on you, everyone needs a hobby (and this is a game - so that is a fine thing to do). But be aware that you could be making a better income by thinking of what your business actually does to make a profit.

Assuming of course you are wanting to make a profit.

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Making billions through arbitrage on a 10% margin requires tens of billions fronting material. Not sure how many cycles you complete each month. With price risk, you must know your products well. Isogen’s spike caused me to shift my builds around. Fewer Battleships, etc.

Some of what goes to market next week - loot and product. Mostly blanked out for competitive reasons. Your approach has a certain appeal, maybe I will end up there. I do enjoy the gameplay and socializing involved with sourcing my material. It’s not just all mining. Getting the more exotic components and material requires participation in the further reaches of Eve. The further you go, the better the margins.

The last time I looked (and it’s been a hot minute) the cost of a block of blue ice was like 100,000 ISK.

The market cost (or value) of the product is not impacted in the least by how you mine it.

I’m not at all understanding what you are asking.

He’s saying “I mined the ice myself, so it didn’t cost me anything.”

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That explains why I didn’t understand him.
I have NEVER understood that mindset.

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