Are you asking because you want to be cap stable for PvE? Thats an issue tbh. The game is balanced around pvp and here is one major difference that carebears need to understand. Cap stable is only for PvE. There are barely any PvP fits that are cap stable and that’s on purpose. You need to work on your cap skills and understand that CCP designs the ships based on the best fittings for PvP. Cap skills mean more to certain races and ships. If you dont have the SP… stick to passive/buffer and ships designed for low SP players at entry level. For some background, I mainly do active armour for solo and small gang fits so I am very familiar with the fits when you have over 100m SP. They are nicely done and nothing needs to be changed as you suggested because it will miss up the current system which is nice tbh. The game also needs to stay PvP focused and if PvE is an issue… balance the NPCs, not the player ships. I also think that your idea that active armour can be looked at individually without thinking of cap skills is incorrect. Capacitor and active tank are directly connected and many ways.
That’s not a ship issue that’s a pilot issue; namely poor choices and lack of knowledge.
Most level 4’s are doable in a BC; some of us have been known to run them in destroyers without issue.
Now that I’m at an actual computer and not on my phone, I can actually do some research. So, I pulled up zkillboard and did some research. Do you know how many battleships were killed by solo destroyer or frigates in the past 7 days? Zero.
Do you know how many frigates and destroyers were destroyed by solo battleships in the last 7 days? Sixty Five.
I’m sorry, but there is no evidence to support your claims that a destroyer can solo a battleship. There is also evidence that a battleship can “punch down”… which means your argument that battleships cannot punch down is also wrong.
Let’s take a look at another one of your claims:
I started playing with pyfa and I did find an unheated catalyst that would 689 DPS. The problem here is that I can’t fit a tackle module on it without a 109 million ISK CPU implant. If I tackle solo, its unlikely I can kill you solo. So, we go into pyfa and we find that the unfitted battleship that has the lowest EHP against hybrid weapons is the Redeemer (Black Ops BS) with an EHP of 28.6K. Do some very simple division and we find out that the Catalyst would need to shoot at the Redeemer for 42 seconds. Do you know what the align time on an unfitted Redeemer is? 11 (10.1) seconds. Do you see the issue with your claim yet?
Let’s move onto your next claim about repairing 100 hit points per second when against that level of DPS. Since you’re complaining about battleships, we’re going to go on the assumption you’re talking about BS self-reps. So how much can the Redeemer with one Large Armor Repairer self-rep for against hybrid weapons? 131.9 EHP/s. This is a Redeemer fitted just one T2 Large Armor Repairer. No armor hardeners, no energized membrane, no Damage Control, no Armor Coatings, no rigs.
Last time I checked 131 is bigger than 100. And let’s be serious, the odds of someone actually fitting a ship like this normally is extremely low. I’m sure there are niche cases where people are going polarized (which would actually bring down the repping to 82 ehp/s), but those are exceptions rather than the rule.
Just because you believe something, it isn’t automatically true. Its pretty easy to actually look this information up. But instead of actually doing less than 15 minutes of research on zkillboard and pyfa, you come in here with factually wrong opinions and claim you know what you’re talking about.
No one should take you seriously…
I’ve been a fan of a flat damage reduction % from small modules. And a lesser reduction from medium. Maybe 25% for small, 10% for medium, as a battleship role bonus
Sadly most of the people that specialised in taking down battleships with solo frigates and destroyers no longer play, it required T2/T3 hulls combined with a shitton of knowledge, experience and luck; luck mostly consisting of the target being stupid enough to take the bait while fitted for PvE.
I undocked two just the other week and jumped them to nul
/ Also mention that they didn’t last very long with my skill set at the helm.
I’m not.
You seriously have no idea what you are talking about. Which doesn’t surprise me as your entire killboard seems to consist of losing corvettes.
Battleships are more than capable of punching down. Turret tracking doesn’t have to be an issue. Some weapons, such as heavy pulse lasers, can have pretty good tracking. On top of that, even if smaller ships do get too close to track, that is precisely what drones such as the Ogre are for, and a bunch of drones alone can have more DPS than many frigates or destroyers.
Personally I only use battlecruisers and battleships ( especially the Gnosis and Praxis ) for PvE. And as far as PvP is concerned, I’ve been in fleets of Apocalypses attacked by Catalysts…and we demolished every single Catalyst. We’ve done the same with Apocs vs Tristans, and Tristans are quite formidable little ships.
He just comes up with absurdly manipulated graph trends, endless references to Runescape, and claims that are little more than his opinion being magically turned into fact. Couple that with a killboard with nothing in it since 2017…and even that killboard is little more than 65 corvette losses…and one struggles to find what his actual experience of Eve is that makes him an expert on battleships and the like. There’s zero evidence he’s ever flown one !
I’m not going to say you’re wrong. But zkillboard literally shows no frigates or destroyers soloing any battleships in its history. So, you’ll forgive me if I don’t take your word for it. That said:
I completely agree with you here. The only way it can really happen is if someone takes a fight they clearly should not take. And even then, I find it unlikely to happen because PvE battleships can take a lot of damage and most are fitted to be able to absorb some neut pressure. I don’t think you can get the combination of neut pressure and DPS on a frigate or destroyer to actually take out a half capable BS pilot solo.
I suppose if you find a battleship AFK, sure. I’ll concede that a frigate could hold (point or scram) a battleship indefinitely, so eventually the frigates friends could arrive to wolf pack down the frigate. But that’s not a solo kill which is what this person is claiming.
I take back what I said… it has happened. I forgot to set the thing to OR on the attackers. There were 8 battleships soloed by frigates or destroyers in the last 7 days. My bad.
But that’s largely lack of experience…such as a case I know of from last week where a 950m ISK Navy Issue Raven was destroyed in 0.8 space by a Kikimora. A classic bait incident. Of course frigates, destroyers, etc, ‘can’ destroy battleships…but the real issue is experience and fitting rather than inherently one of bigger ships being unable to punch down. There are older players who specialise in baiting with smaller or seemingly ‘weaker’ ships, fitted with neuts or rapid shield restore or whatever. Most noobs don’t know how to handle kiting.
You do not always want it faster. Not at the cost of it failing in the middle of a fight because you run out of cap. You need what you need, and you do not always NEED it going faster. You seem intent to ignore this point.
Have you ever active shield tanked? It is easier to fit a cap stable armor tank than it is a shield tank because armor tanks take less cap for HP given. Ancillary shield boosters ignore capacitor all together and can’t be used in conversation regarding armor repair capacitor usage. Ancillaries also operate in short bursts (7-9 reps depending on the use of standard or navy charges), then have a 60s reload. They are usually used for PvP fits where fights are very quick or as a secondary tank. Or in PvE scenarios where a large spike of incoming DPS might occur. In a long drawn out fight with steady incoming DPS an ancillary alone will not be sufficient.
Being in a “chipping away” situation that develops over an extended time and taking enough damage to go from 100% of your armor to 0% in the timespan of one cycle are two different things. What you’re describing is your tank performing slightly less reps than incoming damage. The only way the comment you said prior make sense is if you meant the former.
I always turn on and forget for the most part. Rather shield or armor tanking. If I see I’m not needing it I turn it off, but I’m not monitoring it like a hawk.
It operating faster is requiring more cap. I don’t know what kind of game you’re trying to play, but this isn’t up for debate. Your GJ/s used is objectively greater. Your fit will be less cap stable the higher the skill is. Ergo you are using more cap. Period.
If you are taking so little damage that one rep is easily enough, and you can sit there a run a cycle every blue moon you’re playing in easy mode with some “overpowered” ship or your player opponent (you seem to be referencing PvP only) is vastly outmatched. If you’re doing pirate refuges in a Gila, pwning Cormorant’s in a Confessor and stuff like that then none of this really matters. And active tank means you’re using modules you must activate, that require cap. That has nothing to do with how often you engage and disengage said modules.
Again, you bring up ancillary modules. A SAAR gets about 8 reps and then has to reload for 60s or function like a regular AR that takes more cap and does about 2/3rds the reps of a meta 4 AR. These items are for short PvP skirmishes or possibly a backup if you have logi. Not really the concern of the topic at hand. SAARs are only running 48 seconds total before mandatory reload. Even less each level over 1. For PvP of course you want everything hard and fast. I don’t care about skirmish PvP. It doesn’t really factor into this for me.
I don’t know what you’re fitting skills are or if your only focus is PvP, but they aren’t these absolute hogs if you’re fit properly. I PvE and fights can be prolonged beyond the effective use of an ancillary booster. I just did a mission an hour or so ago where I literally had to keep my tank running nearly the entire time. Tons of mercenaries bombarding me with missile attacks. There was no point where I could turn it off and not die until the end where I’d killed enough to lower their incoming DPS enough that my armor started climbing back from the 20% range. I would have exploded ten time over following your advice. I sure as heck would not have 60s to wait for a reload.
Oh, I agree. I mad a mistake with the zkillboard seach and wanted to admit to it. However, its still grossly inaccurate to say battleships can’t punch down and that destroyers and frigates can easily destroy battleships.
It takes skill, the right fitting, and someone to take the bait. And I’m perfectly fine with someone who has all of those being able to beat a battleship one on one. Because you know… Eve rewards skill.
Whut?
A very common practice for frigate pilots is to use a hull buffer tank with an active armour repper (usually in the form of Transverse Bulkhead rigs).
It works very, very well. Especially on Gallente ships like the Comet.
Thank you for your reply. I hear what you’re saying. I’ll have to take your word on that stuff.
But the point was that we have a skill in which you lose cap performance on one hand in exchange for gaining performance in reps. This has nothing to do with needing cap stability, even in PvE. Regardless of rather or not you are actually stable, it strikes me as absurd that my cap performance is diminished if I spend SP on armor repair. There should never be a situation where I say to myself, “This fit would be better if I my skill level was lower”.
As for your comments on PvP balance. How would the ability to throttle the levels (not in the middle of a fight, but when docked), mess up the PvP balance? You’re still dealing with the same skill levels 1 thru 5. Nothing fundamentally changes. For fast paced PVP skirmishes people with level 5 skill would keep it at 5. Even if they didn’t you’d just have a guy with level 4,3,2 or 1 skill level instead of 5.
Velocity, Transversal Velocity and Angular
Boohoohooo.
the repair system skill level doesnt change the hp/GJ (efficiency), but it increases the hp/s (output). in my opinion thats an upgrade…
if you pause the reps a little bit to make up for the shorter cycle time nothing changes in terms of performance
I am not and have already addressed this. You are admitting to ignoring my points on this matter:
Manually toggle it so it takes more time. You’ll need this for the T2 version to stop overrepping anyway (learn about overrepping and how to avoid it). Or fit a cap booster mid slot. Or adjust your fit. Or piloting strategy. Or keep complaining on the forums about a non-issue.
You’re not arguing in good faith. Please feel free to scroll up and reread what I’ve already written. No further replies are needed.
Yeah, I figured that’s what this whole conversation was about. Good luck out there with your Armor Repairer I fits.