You’ve been chided about your sea-lioning before.
No one owes you anything.
And kindly stay on topic - higher levels of active repair systems.
–Gadget is asking an @ISD_Drew to repair this thread…
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If you are not satisfied with the skill trained, use skill extractors
You can buy them with ISK, PLEX and cash.
You can try submitting a support ticket for unlearning that skill, worth giving it a try.
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But of course higher repair skills are going to use more capacitor. It’s far from being the only situation where advancing in one skill affects others. For example you can train up to use Power Diagnostic II for the power grid, so less power is used, but then find that the fitting pushes CPU usage over the limit as an unintended consequence as the mod reduces power grid usage but increases CPU usage. I’ve had precisely that issue on one ship and had to make do with Mark 1 Power Diagnostic for the time being.
I think one of the issues is that fittings only shows what will occur with your current skills set, and suggests what skills you need to run any fitting. But it doesn’t tell you whether those skills will be enough capacitor, power grid, etc, or what DPS or EHP you will get if fully skilled. All it tells you is your current skills aren’t enough. I do wish there was an option to show ship with all the different mastery levels complete.
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Oh for crying out loud. The game is what you make it. It is quite possible to have huge fun in Eve…both solo and as part of a corp. Personally I’m having a great time. If you are not…how about looking inward for the reason.
Says who ? I started a second Omega account a few months ago, and have a third planned for September. Unlike you I have a killboard ( in fact several ) that shows I am active in Eve every day, and unlike you my killboard does not consist solely of 65 corvette losses with your last record being 6 years ago !
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Sup brotherman. I dont play at all atm so grain of salt here… But this depends mostly on the drones you use. For example, rep fleet warriors can catch almost any frigate so the fight starts and ends with drone choices. I think the first thing any ship should have is a set of rep fleet warz and if you got 50 m3 then 10 rep fleet warz. After that Id go into choices for other things. Imo the first thing you should do with a good BS fit is set yourself up to punch down. This is the main reason I consider anyone using Hobgob2 (because they have more dps) to be a noob. Especially if thats your reason to have those things that cant even catch a real frigate. If you wanna get fancy, test out the mutated drones. My proteus literally has navigation mutated Rep Fleet warz and nothing is faster. I think cruisers are king of pvp and should remain as such in a general sense ofc.
Back on topic… low slots can be heated way beyond other racks so thats also a reason to need more skillz due to this being much better in the end for pvp.
Ok…
First, armor repair modules don’t repair ANYTHING until they get to the END of the cycle, so a longer cycle hurts you.
So, generic hypothetical, say your module repairs 500 HP per cycle. At a lower skill lets imagine it goes through 2 cycles in 10 seconds. You repaired 1,000 HP, congratulations.
At a higher skill you get 3 cycles in that same 10 second time frame. You have repaired 1,500 HP in the same 10 second window. Yeah it cost you a little more capacitor but…
It’s a trade off, and if your other skills are where they should be, and you are rigging properly you can easily remain cap-stable… and if it’s pvp, cap-stable doesn’t mean anything 99% of the time. It’s who gets more dmg out faster before the other guy or gal.
One of the rare, actually balanced trade-offs in the game, well done CCP. Proof that competence existed in their ranks at one point in time.
You mean like PYFA? PYFA - EVE University Wiki
You can adjust whatever skill levels you want in the Character Editor feature or there is a generic “ALL 5” option.
As I’ve stated before it only hurts you -IF- you need that extra repair. If it’s not needed and that extra repair amount leads to complete failure due to cap issues, then it hurts you. My comment is not necessarily about being cap stable nor is it in regard to PvP. This is about drawn out PvE battles with non-stop incoming damage and no time where you can shut it off. I find it odd that there are abilities that require SP investment which can potentially be a detriment if raised to higher levels. Especially considering you’re stuck with it at whatever level you train it up to.
If I have the ability to speed up my repairer, then why is it I cannot slow it down too? What I’m saying is that if I’m level 5 in Repair Systems I should be able to operate said repairers in the ranges of level 1-5. Not just at the max. Just like if I’m doing stationary bike training and I work up to the point where I can do 15 miles in 30 minutes. That doesn’t prevent me from biking slower and doing 12 miles in 30 minutes.
In having trouble understanding why you would want to do this?
If you’re over repping, just turn it off?
I cannot think of any situation where a slower cycle time is better than a faster one.
Edit: you’ve mentioned prolonged pve engagements as a reason.
Why not simply refit your ship for cap stability with the repper running? Use an enduring repper? Replace active hardeners with passive ones? Fit a Nos and steal cap from the rats? Fit a cap recharge midslot or rig? Take a Mindflood booster?
There are numerous options available that don’t require ccp to rework the skills code to add a level of functionality I have never seen anyone ask for in the past.
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This was all mentioned to OP already, and routinely ignored. They just want to complain about a non issue.
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In the face of non-stop incoming damage, you can’t turn it off. Otherwise, you blow up.
Keep in mind I have it at level 1 and it will remain at level 1 until absolutely necessary to raise it.
Complete cap stability is not necessary. That’s not the point.
I already use enduring. But, again, fitting is not the issue. I know how to fit a ship.
I’m doing fine with active tank. As I told Io Koval, circumventing cap usage doesn’t change how Repair Systems works.
A nosferatu only work as long as you have less cap than the target. In my experience they only consistently work on NPC ships that are a class up in size. They also take up a high slot.
I do use cap rechargers (or batteries) in midslot.
It seems you fail to understand the point of what I’m saying. The skill is a double-edged sword. It’s that simple. It’s not about any inability for me to fit a functional ship. I’m simply pointing out that we have a skill that has drawbacks as you raise the skill level. Even if I am cap stable that’s still a thing. The ship I’m using now is cap stable by the way. That doesn’t change what I said in the bold highlighted text.
This was a different ship that was stable enough. During this fight the cap alarm went off a few times. I have to wonder if I had the skill trained to level 5 would I have suffered complete module failure due to cap depletion. That’s the root of it. There should be no skill requiring SP investment, that is permanent, in which there can be situations where it being at a lower level is more advantageous than it being at a higher level. But lets say it’s still cap stable or stable enough at level 5. The issue would still remain that Repair System has a drawback in that the armor repair modules are more of a tax on the capacitor the more SP you invest.
It is not. Putting it in bold still doesn’t change this.
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- When you turn on the repairer, you lose an amount of capacitor.
- When the repairer completes its cycle, you gain an amount of armor HP.
The skill does not change the capacitor cost, or the HP given. It only changes the time it takes to make the trade. Cycling 20% faster and turning the repairer off for a cycle after 5 cycles is functionally identical to running 6 unadjusted cycles. In both cases you’ll lose 6 unadjusted cycles worth of capacitor, and gain 6 unadjusted cycles worth of armor HP. It is just that in the former case, you get all those HP in 5 cycles instead of 6.
The only possible downside is having to actively manage the module to avoid capping out or burning cap needlessly due to repairing more damage than necessary.
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You’re the third person to explain this, you’re far more optimistic than most.
If you are actively managing your modules then there is no downside to the skill. The skill only has a (very theoretical) downside for the semi-AFK bot aspirants that want Eve to play the game for them.
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You are the only person I’ve ever encountered that considers this to be some kind a “double edged sword”.
There are a great many issues with eve i would like to see developer time, energy and resources spent on than this very niche complaint.
If it’s not clear yet: i completely disagree with your assessment of the situation. There are numerous options available to you to work around that don’t require a code rework.
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And she’s the third person to ignore basic math. When I explain to you that something taking more cap in a given amount of time means it’s using more capacitor you ignore this objective mathematical fact. As if you have no concept of arithmetic. “B-b-but it still uses the same cap per rep!” It’s also using that same cap faster because the reps are shorter. How is this so difficult for you to comprehend? Go into pyfa and look at the GJ/s with Repair Systems level 1 vs level 5. Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me it’s the same GJ/s??? That it’s not using more capacitor in the same amount of time? Seriously? Are you trolling? Because I find it difficult to believe you can read and write but can’t understand third grade math.
What I’m saying is objectively true. You don’t have to care about it or think that it should be different, but the higher the skill level is the more capacitor you’re going to be using in a given amount of time. Period. You can deny the reality of this, but what you cannot and will not do is make a cogent argument that it is not the case. You’re doing what everyone else does which is frame this into something that can be worked around. As if the point I’m making is that it’s a struggle to fit a functional ship. But the only thing I’m doing is pointing out that it is a module that requires SP investment but has a downside to go with its upside (i.e., a double-edged sword). Requiring more cap is a downside. If there was a skill that simply upped capacitor cost, I’m sure you’d agree that would be a downside. But for some reason, if there is an upside too, the downside isn’t acknowledged, and you pretend like it doesn’t exist. This framing of this being some “cap issue” that ceases to exist if you were cap stable is a red herring.
Again, you can simply not care about the downside, think the upside makes it an overall net gain (in many cases it is) and/or think it’s just not anything worth changing. But that does not change the objective fact that using 6 GJ/s is preferrable than using 8 GJ/s; that 2mins of capacitor is less than 8mins of capacitor. Even with the upside of getting more armor HP restored the lack of capacitor is still an inherent negative, even if you’re still cap stable at level 5. In a similar vein to the HP/s of an Armor Repairer I being inferior to an Armor Repairer II, even if the AR1 is more than enough tank for what you’re facing (no practical difference in that moment) that doesn’t negate the inherent underlining difference. That difference doesn’t cease to exist because you found a “workaround” in fighting weaker foes, or using nanites, overheating or upping resistances. I don’t know how else to explain this.
this is getting hilarious…
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We are comprehending it. You just refuse to acknowledge the follow-ups to your point. Fingers in ear, going „La la la“.
TLDR: you assume „cap stability“ requires the PyFa and in-Game fitting window assumption to turn everything on and walk away from the computer. This is wrong: „cap stability“ as a concept depends how you pilot your ship and it is wrong to ignore this.
Here’s a fourth explanation:
Cap stability is a derived statistic. It isn’t a primary one that modules affect. Primary attributes modules affect which then affect the derived metric, are:
- Capacitor Capacity
- Capacitor Recharge Rate
- Module Capacitor Cost
- Module Cycle time
- Pilot decision when to activate modules
Of all of these, PYFA assumes „pilot decision is turn module on and leave on auto repeat“ with no way to adjust pilot behavior. Everything else you can tinker with by fitting or skills. All of these complex things affect „capacitor stability“ of a ship which PYFA and In Game fitting window assume the pilot behavior is the bot-aspirant „turn everything on and walk away from computer“ behavior. Which is almost never the case.
So!
Let’s change that last bullet point to mean something else instead. All other bullet points the same. The same skills same ship. Except! Pilot sits attentively at keyboard, and makes sure Armor Repairer is run at every 10s mark. This is the difference. Let’s assume Armor repairer skill is at one, and it takes 10s for it to cycle. It gives 100 HP per cycle. Let’s assume it takes 10Gj to activate. Here is their behavior:
- T=0s, activate repper, spend 10 Gj, cycle begins
- T=5s, nothing interesting happens
- T=10s, get 100HP, spend 10 GJ auto cycle.
- T=15s, nothing interesting happens
- T=20s, get 100HP, spend 10 GJ Auto cycle
And now let’s look at Armor repair V and assume it now takes 5s to cycle:
- T=0s, activate repper, spend 10 GJ, cycle begins
- T=5s, get 100HP, cycle ends (manual deactivation)
- T=10s, spend 10Gj, cycle begins
- T=15s, get 100HP, cycle ends (manual deactivation)
- T=20s, spend 10Gj, cycle begins
Do the math: Capacitor stability is equal in both cases. The latter just gets your HP sooner.
For the lazy pilots that rely on „run modules forever“ then yes their capacitor stability is impacted (all other things equal) when increasing the skill. This is not close to a universal truth, almost nobody is out flying only perma-modules-on fits.
Just because PyFa and in game fitting window spit out numbers doesn’t give you an excuse to turn brain off and go „well Pyfa and in game window say I have to keep all my modules on all the time, guess that is what I’ll do and how I will fly“.
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If you place an order for a pizza, does the one that arrives in 30 minutes cost more than it would have if it arrived in 15? If you keep ordering pizza every time it shows up, yes, you lose money twice as fast if the pizza takes half as long. The answer to this problem is to stop ordering pizza when you have enough.
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