You’re ignoring the objectively true fact that you’ll repair more armour in that same given period at the same cap/ehp ratio.
If you want to just warp in, activate all your modules and not have to think about anything, then fit your ship to do that.
In pve, there are many options open to you. If cap stability with zero input is important to you, then fit your ship to do that. You will probably have to make sacrifices elsewhere to achieve this. You may have to sacrifice some utility or dps, but it is probably possible.
Without knowing what mission or anomaly you’re attempting to run, and what ship you are attempting to run it with, I’m unable to offer any more specific suggestions than the general suggestions I, and others, have already made.
Ship fitting is a bit of an arcane art. As the great Lord Maldoror once said: “If you set out to make a ship in EVE do just one thing, you can make it do that one thing, VERY well” (Clarion Call 4).
Seriously, you’re making an incredibly niche, edge case argument and refusing to listen to some vastly more experienced players who are, believe it or don’t, trying to help you!
So instead of complaining about how something looks odd to you (and only to you) and screaming how ccp needs to change it to suit you, (and only you), how about you tell us more specifically what you’re trying to achieve and let us older, more knowledgeable, players help you out?
My jobs income and bank account coulda left me living paycheck to paycheck when pizza delivery was slow but now the pizza delivery is so fast I am gonna go broke.
That’s a lot of mental gymnastics to complicate a very simple truth: As an example, 6 GJ/s is less than 8 GJ/s. It’s that simple. End of discussion. There is nothing you can say to make that not true. All this stuff about module manage is irrelevant to that simple mathematically truth. There is no room for you to wiggle out of it. This is getting utterly ridiculous, and I can’t take you seriously. You clearly have too much ego to concede even the most simple and obvious of truths. So I’m going to do you a favor and assume you’re trolling and not just, well… you know.
If you actually read it and understood the concept, you’d find I do agree that it is a truth in a tiny corner of a vast domain, where it is otherwise a false assumption. And you’d learn with an open mind. Here’s that relevant part of me agreeing with you:
You can try to claim I’m a troll, but at this point I have years of participating in tough conversations earnestly on these very forums, whereas this thread is simple proof you don’t read to understand but to rebut.
If a pizza cost 10 dollars you would spend 20 dollars an hour at 30 minutes a pizza. If you are getting pizzas every 15 minutes you’d spend 40 dollars an hour. Twice as much money. In the same way the shorter rep cycle cost more GJ/PER SECOND than a meta 4 enduring AR. This has nothing to do with cap management or other mitigating factors. Just the plain hard fact that at level 5 an AR module uses more GJ/s than it would at level 1. Do you disagree?
Not your best analogy I take it seeing as you shot yourself in the foot. This idea that you can just stop repping is predicated on taking little damage. If that were the case of course it wouldn’t matter. If you only need 1 rep ever 1 minute to counter incoming DPS of course it wouldn’t matter. Why would you even use that as an example? You’re effective making a strawman scenario. What happens when you cannot stop the reps because the damage is sizable, just shy of your HP/s recovery, and never lets up? I need you to answer this question. If you ignore as others have previously, I’ll know you’re not an honest actor.
Are you going to keep ignoring the lived example I gave earlier and pretending like there is no such thing as nonstop DPS to which if you stopped repping you would explode? Perhaps you play on easy training wheels mode and only do things that are extremely easy where you can go make sandwiches in the middle of all your fights without a worry, but there are situations where if your reps stop you go boom.
If you can’t stop your reps, even for a second to pulse the repper off and on, then without the increased speed you’d already be dead, but hey, you’d still have capacitor when you died.
Never said it was a “universal truth” that the higher level was detrimental. That’s you strawmanning to try a weasel your way out of how obviously and empirically wrong you are. Let’s look at what I’ve said:
I made it clear already that this downside can have negative effects in specific situations. My point being that it should have no negative impact in any situation. I feel I should never feel like I’d be better off if a skill was lower. Even in a particular niche situation.
And yet you continue to bring up these easy mode scenarios that I’ve made clear are not what I’m referring to on multiple occasions. You do this because you fully understand you have no ground to stand on if you actually stuck to what I’m saying vs. the strawman you need to build in order to be able to tear it down.
I guess you forgot this. Right, you purposely ignored it. The idea that you are being earnest is laughable.
Two pilots with identical reppers. One with a cycle time of 5s, and one with a cycle time of 4s because of their higher skill. Both pilots pulse their repper once every 5s.
Does one consume cap faster than the other? Does one repair more than the other? Is there any scenario you can think of the lower skilled pilot can do something that the higher skilled pilot can’t duplicate by actively managing their module?
No, you wouldn’t. It depends on the amount of damage. There is a damage curve that adjusts through the course of a fight. The DPS at first can be too much, but not enough to sink you quickly. You gradually loss HP as you trade heals for damage back and forth. As more enemies are removed the rate of HP loss decreases but is still more than the tank could completely counter. HP loss becomes more gradual, but still at a deficit. Then it evens out. Then you reach a point where your tank is more than the incoming damage. Then you can pulse it. Now depending on how much time it takes to get to that latter point your tank COULD fail entirely and then you blow up even though it was repping more while it lasted. Only if the rep is doing more heals than the incoming damage can you pulse it out the gate. Otherwise, every time you stop the rep you increase your deficit.
Calm down, and maybe one day we can have a conversation on a thread titled “Why is the Repair Systems skill a two-edged sword” and not “Why is the Repair Systems skill bad for pilots who barely have enough DPS and permanently run reppers in missions”.
I’ve already said that if it’s an easy encounter none of this even matters. So why are you asking me, yet again, about some easy kiddie mode scenario that has nothing to do with the scenario I actually brought up? This isn’t a general statement I’m making about AR performance. I’ve even stated that in many cases higher skill is better. My point is that there should be no situation where lower skill is preferrable. None. Zip. Nada. Nil.
Look at my latest reply to Io Koval. Because you’re running to the same strawman he uses that isn’t based on anything I’m saying. At no point did I ever state that the lower level skill is universally better, which is what you must be implying to even ask such a question. As if I’ve denied that fact that it offers more reps while it’s running. To be a double-edge sword requires there to be benefit and potential detriment. I said there are situations where it can be better and I have repeatedly detailed the situation in question. Which you both will no doubt continue to ignore.
It’s a self-inflicted scenario. There is no scenario where the pilot could not entirely mitigate the drawback by manually managing the active repper. Not even the one you repeatedly talk about.
And therefore the only “double edge” is when the pilot purposefully and deliberately steps on the rake. No one has sympathy for this scenario. Which is why you feel ignored.
I need a bigger bucket of popcorn for this thread.
The amount of self justification and howling from OP about a very niche, edge case situation borders on the hilarious.
Especially since that niche, edge case can be completely alleviated and worked around by simply paying a little attention, or modifying his approach.
Yet, in spite of this, our fearless OP clings to some weird belief that developer time and energy should be devoted to changing a very old piece of code that has been in use for around 20 years needs to be modified just for his one, niche edge case…
You still haven’t told us exactly what mission/ anomaly is giving you this problem or what ship and fit you’re using. That would actually be very helpful info.
Let’s look at your supposed issue from another set of skills: hull skills that increase rate of fire of Lasers/Hybrids/Disintegrators, and the Rapid Firing Gunnery skill.
Let’s just choose the Leshak for the purposes of illustration.
At Precursor Battleship V and Rapid Firing V you have a total of a 40% increase in your rate of fire. Hence, you’ll use 40% more capacitor to cycle your guns over a given period of time. (Note: it’s 40% not 45% as you need Precursor Battleship I to get into it in the first place).
We could also use the Megathron as an example, or any hull that has a rate of fire bonus for a capacitor using weapon system.
Is this also a “double edged sword” by the arguments you’ve been making?
Yes, if there is a practical downside. Even if there are generally greater upsides. Note: I have no experience with Triglavian ships. Amarr ships have a capacitor use bonus that compensates (typical 10% cap use decrease and 5% rate of fire increase). Both are mitigated further by Controlled Burst, a situation where there is another skill that is specifically intended to compliment Rapid Fire.
If you are investing SP to use more capacitor with a higher skill level that can have a negative effect on ship performance, that is a downside. Even if that drawback is negligible or tolerable it would still technically be a downside. As using more cap is objectively worse than using less. It having a downside does not negate its upside. Let’s recap:
I’m sure you’ll just ignore this again and continue on as if you didn’t see it.
You, like Io Koval, are incapable of taking what I’m saying at face value because you have no ground to stand on if you did. You fully understand you are objectively incorrect, but your egos won’t allow you to admit it so you continue arguing against your own strawman framing. You continue to try and make this into a fitting issue that can be resolved or an assertion that skills having any downside somehow negates their upside and renders their respective modules a net loss to use. So keep on with the sly insults while you keep hypocritically “howling” back at me with all your “self justifications”.
It only uses more capacitor if you run it more often than a lower skilled person can, and if you’re doing that you’re repairing more armor HP, too. Either the lower skill pilot is dead because they couldn’t repair enough HP to survive, or the higher skill pilot can afford to turn the repper off now and then because he has an extra buffer of armor HP the lower skill pilot does not.
Murasame Masamune: “Holding everything constant, if I run reppers forever and increase this one skill, I run out of capacitor quicker and my fits become less cap stable”
Everyone: “Yes, so don’t do that, theres half a dozen ways to not run out of cap”
M.M: “It’s a downside!”
Everyone: “No, it isn’t”
M.M: “It objectively lets you consume more capacitor in the same amount of time!”
Everyone: “Yes”
M.M: “That is literally a downside/punishment/negative!”
Everyone: “No”
M.M: “It objectively is a downside!” (repeat as necessary)
Everyone: “No, as you can always decide to run the repper intermittently to match the slower speed before”
M.M: “I wish I had some way to raise the skill but choose to run the repper with longer duration”
Everyone: “That’s precisely what we just said…”
M.M: “You’re ignoring me: it literally consumes more capacitor and therefore it is literally a downside”
Everyone: “It can consume more capacitor in the same amount of time but that alone is not a downside. It’s only a downside for fits and piloting styles where you run modules turned on forever.”
M.M: “You keep ignoring it consumes more capacitor in the same amount of time! You all have an ego!”
The dude is staring at one tree and the rest of us are trying to show him the forest.
At Repair Systems V your repper cycles 20% faster than at Repair Systems I. And you can use an Armor Repairer II instead of an Armor Repairer I.
You could easily remove one tanking mod (an Energized Multispectrum Membrane for example), still have THE SAME ACTIVE TANK than with a T1 repper and Repair Systems I and gain a Low Slot this way. Fit a Capacitor Power Relay into that slow and you will still have THE SAME TANK than with a T1 repper and Repair Systems I and a HUGELY better capacitor situation.
There is no simple scenario where Repair Systems I and using inferior repper beat Repair Systems V with a T2 repper.
My dude.
Your attitude towards people who are trying to help you is pretty dim.
I’ve asked, repeatedly, what anomaly and what ship/fit is causing your difficulty in an attempt to help you.
You have not provided this basic information, instead you’re stamping your feet and demanding that we agree with you.
We’ve pretty much all acknowledged that yes, you use more cap in a given timeframe. None of us agree that this is some sort of major game design issue that requires developer time and energy to solve.
All the tools you need to fix the problem you’re apparently having are already available to you. All you have to do is provide the information required for us to help you out.
It’s becoming a little annoying, regardless how amusing it is.
“That’s precisely what we just said…”