Will ccp accept dogecoin to pay for subscriptions?

Communications Center General Discussion
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WHilst I have no argument with the core of that, I still am not convinced this is any better from the interests of the people than the status quo.

How? Im not being funny, Id like to know how its transparent? I thought one of the points was you could use it and it wouldnt be tagged by govt. organisations?

And who is going to do that, and when, and in whose favour are the questions Id like to understand better.

But you are making a strong argument that I should care. Im still back to the square of “What makes the new controllers better or more trustworthy than our current ones?”

Ok, I may be out of my depth somewhat because I dont really understand this.

I think again my lack of understanding here is the issue. Surely there’s a point in the process where it gets accepted, and presumably, atm its taxless too? I guess as a Govt and/or financial institution Id want to at least get in on the transaction point.

Sorry, again, my ignorance is showing here, I dont understand how or why is would happen.

But if I was trying to get people to use it, Id want to set up a service “Dont know how to operate this new money system? Dont worry, BitPal Middle Agency will handle all that for you. We will make it as easy as swiping your card used to be. Just 2% transaction fee each payment”?

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Money where the rules are enforced by a program, controlled by the people instead of a select few has to be by definition more in the interest of the people. Not individually of course, but as a whole.

It is hard to correlate addresses that hold or transact coins to a person, because you can generate any amount of addresses to receive coins yourself. Anyone can do that anywhere with any hardware.

Miners on the other hand need special hardware and a lot of power to operate. They calculate valid blocks that bring all transaction into an order and get some coins as a reward. If they find a valid block they add it to the chain of blocks for everyone to see to get the reward.

You can see what groups are operating and since they depend on special hardware not a lot of manufacturers can provide, it is known pretty well who the big miners are.

Could they still hide as one of the smaller operations or just hide as one of the independent companies? Sure. But that doesn’t really matter. They can’t do anything special, mining is really just a service to the network.

The gov. They can’t change, censor or gate access to Bitcoin, but they will regulate the companies using the technology that sell services based on it. And they should.

The new controllers are the users of the network and not some few people in power.

Well they can’t. But I have to pay taxes for it sure. Where I live it counts as an asset and I pay a wealth tax.

Bitcoin has a maximum supply of 21mil coins. That means if the amount of capital that flows into it grows, which it does, it’s value has to go up. It’s a bit like gold in that regard. Just even harder, digital and programmable.

Yes you could do that. But the actual technology is open source and not guarded by a duopoly (Visa, Mastercard) that make sure the fees stay high. Any business can come in and offer the same service for less and you can just switch. Because it is an actual free market.

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Yeah but thats what Im saying, I dont understand this enough to see how it wont be a) cointrolled by the few b) why letting a majority of people have control of anything is a good idea (how people have acted during the Covies really makes me doubt the wisdom of allowing people self determination at all tbh)

Could they hide as 5000 small operators, all looking different? Again, I must concede my point on grounds of not knowing much, I still dont get how these operations are visible.

Right, and so why should I believe they have anyones interests at heart other than their own any more than the current rulers?

Again I plead ignorance. I thought this was untrackable?

Ok, so there is a limited number of these things that can be held, so it is possible to control it?

They say that about a lot of things now, such as phone contracts and the like. The reality is quite different. Sorry, its the only comparison I can think of.

In short, I just dont understand any of this well enough to be anything but scared of it. And I feel thats what the current rulers of the roost are going to use to make sure only they can profit from it.

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Well I live in a direct democracy where people vote on almost everything ever 3 months and it let to one of the most stable countries of the world (switzerland). It’s horribly slow, but that is what you actually want. And this is also the case in Bitcoin. You can’t imagine the discussions and drama changing a simple constant has caused for years, with the result that it wasn’t actually changed. I’m more comfortable with that kind of system.

Yeah they could.

They all have their interest at hart. But change will only happen if there is consensus about what to change

Yes. I’m a good boy

In the same way you could control the gold market by owning all gold yes. What good would that do you? People could just say “fu gold” and you sit on a worthless pile of rocks.

Yeah but that example is exactly not a free market because this requires broadcast infrastructure that require concessions that are monopolistic in nature. You can’t let x amount of companies broadcast at the same time on the same band. So you have always at least one company that can completely gate off access to an essential resource to do business.

That doesn’t happen if you don’t have this constrains, and Bitcoin removes those constrains for financial and payment systems.

I mean in the event there is no service provider and they piss you all off so much you invest the time to learn how to do it, you just become your own bank ( GitHub - raspiblitz/raspiblitz: Get your own Bitcoin & Lightning Node running - on a RaspberryPi with a nice LCD ).

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Ergo, I have no reason to believe this outcome, based albiet on my weak knowledge and your counsul, that its going to be a better change.

Where I live, theres been a big political change. Apparently, the majority said it would be better. It really really isnt.

Then isnt that a weak spot? I was more refferring though to the fact that even if one person owned one coin each from that pile, thats a very small very select group right there.

But again, a limited resource held in a limitied number of hands, is basically a monoply, isnt it? If they can decide together of course.

Yeah, well, I dont know about that, it sounds bad, and Im scared. Id rather it all just went away tbh.

But I guess Ill just dance to the tune of the winner of the crypto wars.

I just dont see it being any better for those not generating the wealth. I even worry how its going to end up being used to exploit us more.

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So you would be more comfortable if that political change you don’t like was mandated by a dictator rather than a majority of people?

You can own a fraction of a coin. But yes, there will not be a lot of people who own a full coin when global adoption happens. Why do you think I own Bitcoin?

A monopoly means that one party controls can produce an essential resource. There are millions of people holding bitcoin. Most only a fraction of a coin.

That is the typical reaction when humans encounter something unfamiliar. Be aware of it, overcome and learn about it to get rid of this irrational fear.

No one actually is generating wealth. The miners pay for the new coins with energy, always have. There was no preconceived pile of coins. It’s just because of the increasing demand and limited supply, once you own some bitcoin their value will increase.

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Might want to check out PAXG if you want “claimable” gold exposure

“No one actually is generating wealth” lol, I disagree

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You seem to be under the impression these are mutually exclusive situations and I have to say, it is widely believed thats prettymuch what did happen. A dictator pretending to be the friend of the people, which is an endemic situation in politics.

But yes, if people could see further than their own noses, it would be better. At least then people might have something uniting to aim their ire at rather than the current division.

Right, so like I say, trading one landlord for another. I really dont see it making any real difference to people who still have to go to work. BUt I do keep issuing the caveat that you know more than me, so Im hoping Im wrong. But as a student of History, it would be a remarkable change, for sure.

This could change though? and millions is still a small percentage over all.

Maybe I chose the wrong word. Im not seeing what is being exchanged here for this extra purchasing power otherwise. I was under the imperssion, at least partially from this thread, that miners produce their own energy?

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You know what they say about offer that is too good to be true, right?

Its volatile, it is like rollercoaster. Tweets about buying it it by one man make it soar in value. Crazy, isnt it?
He just used power he has to manipulate price of Bitcoin.
He can now dump it all in parts, silently when so many people FOMOed into it. He will be richer, those other not so much. He will then wait until it goes down to repeat the operation.

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But that is actually what happens if you give the people the responsibility. Couple years back we had to vote if we get a week more payed vacation. The people said no. How is short sighted self interest?

I go to work. I’m a regular guy. But instead of putting my money that constantly loses purchasing power on a bank account where i get no interest and basically pay them so I can give them my money I just put it into bitcoin that increases 200% in value per year. That makes a real difference.

Yes, because it is still early and most people are completely oblivious to the potential of technology or think it’s just some fad that will go away. All technology follows an adoption curve. The internet took 20 years to reach mainstream adoption.

Well yes, but operating a power plant costs money as well. You can either sell the energy or mine bitcoin if demand is lower and it’s more lucrative to mine. It builds like a price floor for power that actually makes renewable energy sources more competitive.

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Well without knowing anything about it, I would postulate that companies told people that in some manner, it would be better for them not to get it. Like here, where people thought that discarding employee rights and free trade was worth it to “get our laws back” but not being able to explain what that meant.

Well that sounds great, but my money is in a Building Society that at least doesnt charge me for the privilege of storing it there. However, as Im required to have a bank account for any other number of services, Bitcoin investment wouldnt change that at all for me, or many people. Unfortunately, the choice doesnt exist in that manner, or at least its not been explained to me how it is possible.

Right, and now its far less democratised or free than ever, even though more people can access it. In fact, more people can access it purely to drive those same money men making their fortunes while the rest of us do what they tell us.

Unless you are prohibited from it by law, weather conditions, etc. All of these things are exploitation points that can be manipulated to force a desired outcome. But either way, thats not really what I was getting at. The point is the power to earn off the back of this will last for the alleged majority until the point comes when someone has enough popwer either from it or from their other sources to control it. Without a new paradigm outside of conglomerate control (because tbh lets just remove govts from this, govt control hasnt really been a thing since… well probably forever. Lords and Mill Owners pretty much the lot of em), nothing will actually change for people as , as I say, anbd as this thread seems to suggest, there’s early adopters, there’s people convinced its bad by media, and theres people like me, who do not understand it and are fearful of what it means. I mean, a tramp on the street can still find a £5 note and buy a coffee. In a digital finance world, that option is gone.

The landlords will have won totally, not only do they own the land you stand on, but the actual value of all items in your possession and your ability to exchange goods and services for anything except raw barter.

Sorry, thats just what I fear from this. Tbh for a proper considered thought, Id need to review what happened in other periods when exchange systems changed from one method to another, Im sure my own country’s colonial history will shed some light on it. Spoiler: odds are its bad in the short term at least.

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But it isn’t too good to be true. The fundamentals are sound. Bitcoin is still in price discovery mode and will be for a couple of years.

Yeah that is because the market cap is still so low that sudden increase in demand moves the price. Just shows how early we are.

Good strategy. I highly doubt he will though. Anyway, I bought under 10k, he somewhere around 40k so I guess I have nothing to worry

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Thats what person trying to scam you would say. Your “discovery” is just speculation.

To me it looks like more speculators are joining in. With biger money.

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A company is composed of people and has to be profitable to function. So yes, the people understood that if we increase payed vacation we would have a disadvantage to other countries and they would pay the price. Still self interest but not short sighted.

Well true, I still need a bank account as well for daily business, at least for now. I was more talking about a savings account. Which most people probably don’t even have anymore because they are told spending all your money or even more is the way. Also makes no sense to save money if it just erodes away

Yeah I get what you try to say. But that is not the case here. The rules are in the program people run that creates the network called Bitcoin. No one can just change that. This all is a grass roots movement out of the cypherpunk community which are extremely anti authority and designed this deliberately in a way that it can’t be controlled.

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PAXG token is intrinsictly valuable because it is BACKED by GOLD, that is also CLAIMABLE (yes, physical claimable gold).

That can also be used as strong collateral.

Now, if you cannot pay with that then you’re nuts.

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Well Ill concede this case on the grounds that I have no idea what specific thing you are talking about, but generally, if a company wants it, its bad for its employees.

I would disagree, but maybe its different where you live. Most people i knbow have a savings and current account. My saving are in a Credit Union, so Im pretty confident my savings arent likely to evaporate any time soon.

And, I hope you will excuse me for saying, I dont actually believe that is the case (that they are some renegades who are anti-authority. they may be against authority above them. But Im sure they love having it.) But then, I have no faith in human nature at all. not in a good way anyway lol.

But I appreciate your patience and have enjoyed learning more about this remarkable phenomenon.

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Obviously it is speculation. No one knows the future and betting on it has certain risks. You can lower that risk by looking at and understanding the things you think about investing in. I think I have done that and I bet my money on it.

Yes, because more and more people see the value in it and start to understand what this is all about.

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Then you should maybe change company.

If you hold your savings in fiat and not in assets then the number may stay the same, but it loses a significant amount of purchasing power over the years. Why do you think the stock market, gold, property go up all the time? They don’t actually, at least mostly, it’s the dollar that goes down.

Yeah but you did not actually look into the matter, so that judgment is based on a gut feeling alone.

I hope it inspired you to look a bit more at the actual technology. Because that is what it is actually all about

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You know what road this is leading down. No company in any capacity that I have ever worked for has cared about anything more than stuffing the board’s pockets with cash. And I have no reason to believe this isnt true for all companies, after all, making money is the only reason they exist.

I dont know what this means.

If you could show me how to do that, I would? But really, what evidence is there that this is the case that would change my mind that these folk who are doing something thats making them very rich are doing it for aultruistic reasons?

Sadly not, it would be way way beyond my understanding, thats really what this was about for me, trying to understand what this is about and how Im going to get shafted by it. So I guess it is all about self interst, even for me, at the end of the day, huh.

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Technology fails. I am thinking, maybe the best would be something that you can keep for decades in a wall safe behind a cupboard in your dining room. Something that will hold value and what you can always use even without electricity or when war will ruin economy and make currency useless. And you cant eat diamonds or bitcoin.

You need 50 year old whiskey.