Would you, the players who already play, start the game at its current state, and keep on?

Communications Center General Discussion
101

The downward trend in in-game activity is rather obvious. I don’t think this needs to be discussed, especially not if this means the end of Eve or not (yet).

However, the original post touches an important aspect that has heavy influence on player numbers, because it has to do with the acquisition and retention of new players.
As most of us aren’t really new and in the game, for maybe similar oder maybe completely different reasons, we can only imagine for ourselves how it would be if we get into the game as new players now.

And as I already answered that from my point of view earlier, I am now wondering if this is the right question. Maybe we should ask: is there enough reason to play this game over any other (similar) game?

Of course there is nothing that really compares to Eve, but there are other sandbox MMOs, other Sci-Fi games, other (real) F2P games. There is so much to choose from that even small things can make a difference - especially negative things.

I tried Age of Conan some years ago. Started the game, played for an hour and realized that there isn’t even enough inventory space to store crafting materials. I looked at the shop, wondered about prices and felt like they were trying to rip me off: a F2P game that “forces” me to spend money before I could really make up my mind if I like the game or not. Switched it off, deinstalled and never touched it again.
I doesn’t even matter if my feelings were justified or if I only had a wrong impression or missed something: felt bad → gone away.
Unfortunately, Eve has probably a lot of those turn offs, many of them mentioned somewhere in this thread.

Why should someone stick around in spite of breaking the NPE or being annoyed by upgrade and buy-buttons?

One thing would be: there is some light at the end of the tunnel - preferably the light of some fancy explosion.
There are some things that make Eve great: the big fights, the drama, scams, thefts, people, freedom of choice and so on.
The first one is especially noteworthy as there were occurances were fights made it into other media and draw in lots of new (and returning) players. I won’t go so far in saying that there are no more epic fights anymore, but there are definitely not enough. Not enough stuff to fight over, no mechanics that really encourage fights (at least not like it used to be) and in consequence no wars that make people log in.
Do not make everything more appealing to small groups using small ships in small time frames. Give people something to strive for. And no, i don’t mean a ratting carrier, but rather being part of somethign that feels like it would matter in eve (and entosing ■■■■ or doing the second timer on the 36th citadel doesn’t).
“Fix” Eve from top down and at the same time, clean up the bottom: set player expectations straight, teach them the important stuff, don’t annoy them with having the game look like one big item shop.

2 Likes
102

hell no I wouldn’t start over again. That core skill train for one, it’s like two years of skill training to just to know you have all the attributes of the ship maxed when sitting in it. And then the fitting bonuses… yeah no not doing that again.

Homegrown, painfully and slowly

image
image.jpg735×290 88.1 KB

Will I keep playing, yeah probably. Maybe eventually I’ll have the time.

Oh and I could always go for the removal of attributes.

2 Likes
103

No, im really asking. Im just not saying eve dies, atleast not yet, because thats an topic on its own.

An problem that i see in the current (real) new player experience aswell.

The problem is, you dont really see what makes eve great as a new player, and if nobody gives you a reason to stay, well… What a current player experiences is an absolutely obscure vision of eve.

I remember on fanfest it was said they used external companies to test the new player experience, and all thought it was great. But is there really another option? ofcourse its not bad. Technically, you do a lot of fun stuff and get some basics explained. But then, eve starts - which surely contains everything else but dramatic pve content. The question i would ask more is, did anyone of those testers played eve for longer and then stayed? I think i know the answer.

4 Likes
104

I searched for “why do you play eve online” on the web and lots of results came up with lots of different reasons. The fact that the reasons are so diverse I think is a really good sign. Looking just fast through some of these articles and forum threads, from what I could see many of the reasons seemed to be based on that you have to be in the game for a while to get into it, to understand how everything works and is connected, beyond mastering the mechanics and having skillpoints. Some places it was stated that playing casually was also totally possible, but it seemed to depend on having played the game for a while to be the most worthwhile, so you knew exactly what to do when logging in and in that way feel that the time was well spent.

There is of course nothing wrong with that it takes a while to get into but many may not get to the point where it could start to become more interesting. Could this more interesting “late game” be communicated to new players, in a way that doesn’t feel to distant and unachieveable?

1 Like
105

Well… I heard of Eve back when I was a Dust 514 player, I had a slight taste of Eve, pilots shooting us from space. If I chose to not play Eve as soon as I did and came now… well…

I’d be going in, assuming the community was nothing but trolls or noob bashers. Getting more into that, I watched some Eve news thanks to a few random youtube channels I subbed to. This provided news of what Eve was like, without the need to play it, and well, it portrayed Eve as horrible. The first news I ever saw was the “tyrant of Eve”. In this, I heard the story of a pilot (new player) who just wanted to mine and be left alone… The tyrant and his corp kept on harassing the pilot and told him to [off him/herself (can’t remember which)].

Past that I would tempted to see what things were like, but I would be going in with fear, worried about cyber bullying or even death. My first time around I was on a trial that let you do PI, and it was PI that sparked my interest in the game. Without that start, I would have had no desire for the game, it being a constant grind instead of “well, it’s okay, you can have a little passive coin”. Not to mention seeing all the big ships I wouldn’t ever be able to fly, always being weaker, always losing what I worked so hard for. Starting in so late, I never would have met the only corp to show compassion to me, so I would have a continuous despise and fear towards everyone. Even now, I reside in a pocket of space where you can go a whole week without seeing another player; to join at this point would drive me into obsession with a single player experience.

If I joined now, would I stay? Of course not, it’s a bad game (as an alpha, starting out right now), it has a bad rep (as far as death), and the devs abandon projects, keeping the loyal on a string (what would stop them from ending the game if they didn’t make enough at one point?).

I have Asperger’s and this game fulfills all the needs that flaw, supplies satisfaction to the weird gaming content I desire because of it. Even if it is the perfect game for me, I wouldn’t play more than a day if I started today.

3 Likes
106

Let’s assume someone has played this game for quite some time, he has done most of the usual stuff, a deeper understanding of all mechanics and, most importantly, he is able to read and understand patch notes and the eve uni wiki.
How long would someone like this need to reach late/end game on a new character? Without help from old buddies or shifting over assets from other characters.

I’d say a few weeks to a few months.

How long would it take a new player to get to the same point?

It might take the same time in some rare cases - I met a few of those people, quick to learn and basically no fear of losing stuff.
They also may never reach anything that may be considered “end game” - and I am sure I met even more of those: multiple years in the game and still running only normal lvl 4s and doing hi-sec mining - which by itself is fine, of course, but for many people this just isn’t enough.
And all the rest is somewhere in between, eventually moving to null-sec flying capitals and participating in big fights, moving to wormhole space, becoming notable traders/producers/scammers/mercs or whatever else you may consider late game.

I just took a look at the Eve front page: something about endless possibilities in lots of different aspects of the game, in groups or alone and so on… Might be rather abstract, but it fits. The problem might be, that those possibilities need to be pursued and are not just lying in front of a new player after entering the game.

And that’s the fallacy many fall for. In game wealth and skills doesn’t mean anything beyond a certain point. Knowledge and connections on the other hand make all the difference.
The skillpoint system allows new players to catch up in a specific area in a more or less short time frame (compared to the ~ 20 years of total training time). For example: Within a few months, it’s very well possible to fly a tech 3 cruiser at maybe 95% maximum efficiency. The fact that your opponent might have 120 million more skillpoints doesn’t matter, because only a fraction of those matter for the ship and the last percentages always take up the most SP (look at the weapon specialization skills).
The little difference in skills that may be left can be easily mitigated by other things: better flying, better fitting decisions or asking friends for help (forget about space honour ;)).

One of my former corp CEOs of a wormhole corp only had a single account, was very bad at scanning, not a very good FC and also had a killboard that was worse than those of most of his members. However, he liked dealing with the political and organizational stuff and was able to delegate the other things to the right people.

Someone else I know, started FCing alliance fleets after a year in the game and doing that quite well.

We had people only a few weeks in the game in our wormhole corp that went tackling in tech 1 ships - successfully and repeatedly.

I met at least two guys that managed to earn a month of game time via plex in their trial period (before alphas) with null sec exploration - and without having played the game before.

All those examples don’t even require that many skillpoints, just understanding of the game, the right environment and most importantly acceptance of the fact that this is a game after all and that you simply cannot lose anything of real value, just pixels.

Unfortunately, the list of people that lack imagination, understanding and, which is worse, willingness to learn or even accept how and what Eve is and works, is much, much longer. Some of them have fun nevertheless (which is good) or even manage to get to the “late game” somehow, others just leave (which might be good for them) and some just try and fail and try the same stuff again with the same result.

:cow:

2 Likes
107

Well, its still an mmo. Usally people play those because there are other players, not to avoid them. And losses arent that bad. Thats always the problem if people hide too long, it starts getting unrealistic about how the situation actually is - balance comes from people not spending everything in one ship and actually just a fraction of the skillpoints mattering.

Ofcourse, if you start saying “im always weaker than those guys” and never actually trying, its easy to quit at some point saying thats the situation.

1 Like
108

Gigx?

109

Eves retention is a supply demand curve. Not in the traditional sense but in the psychological sense. Demand being excitement or reward on the intrinsic level and supply being the value of change to keep the game fresh. The demand curve falls due to the law of diminishing returns. This simply means that things lose value to a person on some intrinsic or extrinsic value over time regardless of the activity itself. Some fall faster than others, the excitement wears off, the “newness” is gone and the new car smell is replaced by old gym socks and that half eaten piece of pizza you forgot is under the drivers side seat in the summer heat.

Each one of us wants something new to excite us again yet craves the stability that the sameness of the game also provides. These things clash and because they are reached at different points with different people it can never be good enough for any one person or groups of people. So we fight within ourselves to have it remain the same ans stable and for the new fun and edge that change provides. This is alaos why real life is often either extremely boring or insanely exciting and overall swaps between the two. Hours and hours of boredom accentuated by moments of sheer terror.

After the exceitment has fallen and the change itself becomes too much away from the stability we enjoy we reach bitter vet syndrome. We love it for what it was, yearn for the change that will return it to a state where it is fun again yet know inside, whether we realize it consciously or not, that it never shall. Then sometimes comes the sunk cost fallacy, or ass I like to call it: kids. We have children, or noobs if you will, in order to live vicariously through them to rekindle the joy and excitement we so often had in previous years. We teach them, watch them grow and develop within the structure of the social conformity and weird, crazy family we have. We miss it yet we do regain some joy from watching it happen.

14 years on this is Eve. Given the relative time compression of Online gaming that I have witnessed we are very much in our 50s or 60s given a normal human lifespan comparison. We are well past the times of youth and most are long past the mid life crisis phase of bitter vet. This in itself isnt a bad thing, just a normal cycle of life thing.

As I have often told many people. People are people are people. We do the same things, go through the same cycles throughout life and Eve is no exception. To change it severely from what it was would breath a new life into it while destroying the old stability and sameness we have come to enjoy, yet stagnation and sameness leads to death in Florida or some old folks retirement home.

There will always be struggles and friction though, between individuals or groups looking to change or stagnate things, like in real life. Progressives and conservatives. Change and stability. Each vying for a better world as they see it and rarely will anyone actually find the inner peace they wish to find. Yet this, again makes Eve real. As in life we find our own path through the stars, the cosmos itself calls and we find ourselves, like Carl Sagan, a “pale blue dot” speeding along at the speed of the universe, a hurtling bullet of a rock screaming towards… where? Oblivion or ruin perhaps? Utter glory and eternity? Maybe it doesnt matter, maybe its about the ride and enjoying the scenery as we speed through our lives here in New Eden.

But hey… what would I know… Im just some guy, posting some drivel, 6 beers in while I mine a bit of ore in some space game.

Eve… its what you make of it…

1 Like
110

I’m one of the players just waiting for my sub to run out. As of a couple months ago I’m not really playing this game anymore. In my opinion, I can’t see anyone start the game as it is. And the reasons why are to many to even start bothering to list.

1 Like
111

As a new player who has had some “interesting” experiences in my first week of eve, I think I’ll stay alpha for now.
The forums seem more fun than the game…

1 Like
112

everyone knows the forums are the real end game

2 Likes
113

Considering I started this past november… yes?

Game’s fun, though finding time for corp/alliance stuff is hard with my work schedule.

114

Yes I would. I have started a new alpha, just to try the NPE and see what an alpha could do for the very reason you mentioned above. I am quite happy with the changes. Yes EVE has some things still to fix and/or improve, but overall I’m happy. But I’m not a super wordy hyper critical individual. I guess I’m either easy to please (wife would agree) or I really don’t care if I can sign in with Facebook or get badges or what ever it is on the game’s foums. I am an on/off player and I’m finding my breaks from EVE are getting shorter. Huge fan of the new in-game fitting tool

115

At this point I’m just training my toon in this alpha state to it’s absolute brim of skills and then I’ll decide whether to subscribe.

1 Like
116

Seeing the “dailies” now, i cant say how much i wouldnt continue playing.

1 Like
117

I’ve been here since Eve beta days.

And I am still here because I do my own things instead of trying to go along with the trend. This is a sandbox game. I don’t have to follow the trend.

I don’t play much though. Maybe, 2 hours max a day.

The Eve back in 2004 isn’t that much different from Eve of 2017. There are still whiners. There are still “Eve is dying” threads.

3 Likes
118

Completely agree, and I am right there with you.

119

Imho its quite different, though im not there from beta days. Its just sad if features that you used get removed, and features implemented arent usable because “if you dont like them, dont use em”.
At some point, the question is, if there is even enough likeable stuff left for one personally. And though eve may have more to offer for some people, it…
maybe im not objective right now. im totally nuts about “dailies”.

120

Expecting a 14 year-old game to remain almost identical in its life span is like expecting your life to remain the same for 14 years.

Things change; stuff happen. You get married or have kids or whatever.

The point is that it won’t feel the same after 14 years. The game won’t be the same. The players won’t be the same.

I used to love the null life in early stage of Eve online. That was before any sort of sov mechanics existed. Things changed, blobbing began, and I moved out.

I do miss the old days but I pretty much expected that I’d miss the old days. That’s just the way of life.

2 Likes