Wow, so much has changed


(Vas Vadum) #1

I know that EVE Online has and will always be full of trolls, and that any topic started that mentions opinions about the state of things will be trolled for sure and that no staff will bother trying to keep it civil, but I feel like speaking my mind on some things.

Firstly, I’d like to say this free to play, and pay to win thing ruined the game for me. I spent years, skilling up with +5 implants and all, knowing that even though players could buy ISK and spend money to buy characters from other people, they couldn’t just instantly get the skills they wanted maxed out whenever they wanted, and I felt accomplished when I got shields armor hull maxed out and made my Skiff a ball of indestructible shield that made people think “Uh, nope, I’m not attacking him, lets pick someone else in the belt”. I spent years training up to use a Rorqual even, and the very instant I completed, I was racing against someone else in the alliance to do so, you guys release buyable skill points, and that very same day at least 5 accounts maxed out 27+ years worth of skill points right then and there, and everyone who has jobs, started just buying skill points. CCP made tons and tons and tons of money that day, it sure was a great get rich quick scheme. It still works now, because giving players more ways to win by throwing money at you works. Now there’s nothing to accomplish by skilling the old fashion way, you can’t be better than the people who just dump their loads of money into the game.

Secondly, adding onto this. You now have the game set as free to play, while enabling players to pvp in this free to play mode. I hear the December update is going to be even worse, where it goes free pvp to the extreme. Suicide gankers in highsec were a problem before, and now you intend to make the game unplayable for anyone who doesn’t pay real money. I sincerely hope miners go on strike and eve industry shuts down causing a total market collapse as a result, but I doubt it will happen. Your free to play mechanism only supports gankers, it doesn’t support anyone else. You make mining seem like the most horrible thing anyone could ever do in free to play mode, its horrible! But suicide ganking miners is super easy, so easy people even do it to miners when its not even worth it, where the ganker loses more than the miner does. I mean, really? That just proves the game isn’t for those who enjoy mining anymore, because clearly you’re trying to phase out industry by making industry the worst thing to do in the game. Like you’re trying to make 95% of the game pvp battles. Why bother having highsec anymore? Its worse than nullsec now, its roming death squads of newly created ganker accounts playing with free destroyer ships just warping from belt to belt looking for targets. I survive longer in nullsec because I know whats enemy and whats not, highsec, everything’s an enemy now. This’ll never change of course, because CCP supports this, making the game unplayable in the areas that were supposed to be considered safe.

No, lets not bother making lowsec and nullsec more valuable, lets just invite free accounts to suicide gank miners in highsec to force them out of highsec! And add more ISK flow to the game raising inflation up rapidly! I remember back when PLEX, was 1 item, and cost 200 million ISK. Now its been split uselessly up into 500 items and costs a total of 1.6 billion or so last I checked. Have you done anything to try and limit inflation? It certainly doesn’t seem like it.

Third, I’d like to mention I liked the previous forums better, this new thing seems bleh, unintuitive and basic. Like a lazy forum remodeling. Just my thoughts here on this.

Fourth! In all the years this game has been getting updates, you’ve still never enhanced the connection protocols? Come on, this is ridiculous! One single packet gets lost, and the game stops responding to ALL packets, but doesn’t tell the player this, it takes at MINIMUM 60 seconds before the game MIGHT tell the player they lost connection. Even if you know you lost connection, you can’t quit or relog, because “quit game” does NOTHING. You have to end the game in task manager just to re-launch it hoping you can get online before you enter “safe warp” or are destroyed by an enemy. I mean if you don’t realize you lost connection till 5 minutes later when the game finally tells you, you’re generally ■■■■■■. All because the game can’t handle connections properly. Any decently coded game can handle packets being lost, but I guess that means EVE may not be properly coded.

I mean, just my observation. I play other games just fine, if I lose connection for a second or two, the game waits for me, keeps me connected to the server, sure I may stop doing things during that time but I don’t sit there and wait to get booted 5 minutes later and have to reconnect. EVE is the only game I’ve ever encountered that can’t handle a slightly unstable connection. I’d understand, if I had extreme packet loss and a very bad connection, but I’m simply having slight dropouts lasting 1-2 seconds tops every 15-45 minutes. Something any game should be able to handle. I can’t help it that the hardware is broken and that its expensive to replace. But you can help it, by coding your game to handle these dropouts in a graceful manner.


I tried getting back into the game, but when I got back on, I heard from locals that its gotten worse for miners, and that the game is getting ridiculous. Made worse by the fact that I an be sitting there and suddenly I find that none of my actions for the last minute have been doing anything, I have to alt tab to end the game in task manager in order to reconnect because bad coding. I can’t be a miner in highsec cause of the free player suicide gank problem, I can’t be a miner in null cause of the connection problem, I can’t do what I enjoy, because you’ve destroyed it with your pro pvp only get rich quick updates. Next, you’ll just add the option to buy any ship in the game with real money! You’ll have the slogan “Can’t find your ship for sale where you’re at? Buy it with real money!”

I don’t like where this game is heading, I didn’t like where it was heading when I played in the past either.

I took a year vacation cause of the issues in the game. The only time I ever really enjoyed myself, was when I was in TEST. Best group of people I’ve ever been with. I just can’t get a feel for it anymore, free to play pay to win schemes going off the charts. :confused:

Anyway, have fun trolling my topic into oblivion, I’m sure the pvpers will be the first ones here to bash it all up. Followed by Goonswarm and their naturally bullyish members. Hey, I don’t mind how much you hate me or put me on watch lists for hunting and harassing. I’m abrasive, whether you like it or not I say whats on my mind.

EDIT: Oh yea, forgot to mention the closure of EVE Gate, which I used to use to show people I play eve and invite them to join me too. Thanks for that. Now I’ve got no way to show them my in game profile and stuff.


(Arcanith Lionheart) #2

Wrong! I am a non PvPer! And I heavily disagree with so much in this.

Game has never been Pay-to-Win (but if you include multiboxing then… that was ages ago buddy)
The Free-2-Play model only allows 1 account up since they cannot multibox, all accounts need to be Omega to multibox.
Look above as to why everything you said about High Sec related with Free-2-Play model is entirely void.
You claim “this is bad this is bad” but you do not actually do any research and try to understand what is going on.
About the forums, mankind adapts to changes, and change is here to stay, unless it is just god awful, which the foruyms are not the priority to worry about.


(Vas Vadum) #3

I’d actually consider these forums god awful. Wall of text mode activated. Previous forums were much less of a mobile phone wall of text.

The game has always been pay to win. Buy a plex, sell it for in game cash. Spending real money to get rapid in game cash. Now, its just worse, spend real money to max out your skill points too.

I didn’t need to do research. I logged in. Talked to some miners, joined a bit of mining. Watched free accounts suicide ganking t1 mining ships and even got told that people actually suicide gank the only thing free accounts can mine in, even though its literally just a 3 million ISK ship. Literally the least worth it thing to ever suicide gank, and it gets suicide ganked by free throw away accounts.


(Nana Skalski) #4

CCP = Cant Code Properly

That actually has not changed much.


(Tipa Riot) #5

Except that you win nothing with ISK and max skill points. It’s meaningless if you can’t fill your game time with something fun and challenging.


(Quelza) #6

Thank you for sharing.

I’m just slightly confused about your rationale for claiming that the December Alpha changes will result in a sustained tidal wave of suicide gankers. Could you elaborate?

How do CCP make it seem like mining is the most horrible thing you could ever do in Alpha state? Their one advert video so far prominently featured mining and industry as being parts of the game that Alphas could participate in. Mining activities play a role in sovereignty warfare now, and the new moon mining changes are gonna make miners really important in T2 industry and nullsec/lowsec conflict.

Where are these “roaming death squads” of Alphas in “free destroyers”?

PLEX was split up so that it could function as Aurum. That’s part of the reason that it has increased so much in price, it can now be used for more services than previously.

Your post started out as an opinion but it mostly consists of wild assumptions about the current state of EVE based on seemingly little understanding and anecdotals.


(Arcanith Lionheart) #7

It feels more like Pay to Progress

See, in my eyes Pay to Win is when you pay for something others cannot get, like in most cases this epic cool armour with insane stats that makes you OP compared to top PvPers

In EvE, with time and effort, you get anything, you do not “win” by being rich, you do not “win” by killing ships, in fact in my opinion the best win to me is the journey to what I want and buying Plex just to fly a Titan is already killing that journey. So Pay-to-Win in EvE is just not existent because everyone can get to the point they want just like everyone else.

But hey, I am just the kind of guy that enjoys a game for what it gives, if people buy to get to the end-game then power to them and hope they are happy, just makes me wonder why EvE of all games considering even in PvP you got to wait.
Let us not forget that “money do not buy skills, no, not skillbooks and skill levels, skills as a player to properly fly the shiny new things you got”

And the whole Forum thing is all opinions, because I like it, I like how Discobot hates my guts, I like how simple it is.
So no, you did no research, you just decided to log in, do some ranting (I am predicting the thread to be closed) and just lash out at people that try and point out things. Because once again you give no solid facts about the whole “alphas ganking miners”, if anything the miners should learn to tank their ships since a single alpha ganker will have a hard time ganking, or switch their mining area around so they wont be that predictable.

Maybe the troll here is you in the end.


(Vortexo VonBrenner) #8

OP, you are 100% right in everything you said. I agree with you completely!

So…can I have your stuff, please?


(Vas Vadum) #9

Last reply for the night;

Quelza;;
With the ability to fly any pvp ship for free, it means that pvpers will be able to interfere in mining operations everywhere vastly easier and for free, while miners who pay real money, or real time, to play the game, will start losing things and either be forced to quit, or give up due to not wanting to pay to lose anymore. No one wants to pay for a game when they keep getting destroyed by others who just like trolling it up.

I guess the plex thing makes sense, hwoever it was 1.8 billion before I quit for a while way back, it dropped a slight bit after the split, but it still inflated to god awful prices before I ended up leaving because of all the ISK pools CCP added to the game to give players lots and lots of ways to get non-player-economy currency.

Arcanith;;
EVE doesn’t require skill in the first place. It requires knowledge of spreadsheets. You can play the game in a modified client thats text only if you really wanted to. I bet people already do that, in ways that allow them to multibox without detection on free accounts, but thats besides the point.

While I spend 3 years mining, working as if the game’s a job to barely break even at the end of the month when I buy my plex, just barely having enough ISK left over to get new drones, fix up my ship, and afford whatever else I need to use during the month, someone else can just buy 5 billion ISK, buy up all these modules ships and such, and achieve what would take a normal player a year to do in 5 minutes. Thats what I qualify as pay to win.

For alphas ganking miners, see not only above, but my previous post, that states how I talked to miners who were being ganked by alphas, even hearing about how people using the only free mining ship allowed for alphas to mine in, were ganked by other alphas for mining in those ships.

Vortexo;;
Sure. I don’t have anything left anyway. When I took my break over a year ago, I gave everything to the corporation I was in. I got maybe 1 million ISK left. With no assets anywhere except that craptastic mining ship alphas are allowed to use.


(Galaxy Pig) #10

Can you put me in touch with whatever group is doing this because it sounds AWESOME!


(Arcanith Lionheart) #11

My prediction is you just orbit or approach people. I don’t PvP and I already know at least a few tricks that PvPers use. Heck even PvE needs some sort of skills, you can’t just take a battleship to the middle of a fully fresh L4 mission site just because “you got skills in your character sheet”

I wonder if skills and money gave that Omega T3 destroyer the edge he needed when he got obliterated in a duel against an Alpha clone flying a Vexor.

I’m done here, thanks for the laugh.


(Nikea Tiber) #12

Wow. Where the heck to even start on this block of salt.

First off, OP complains about walls of text. Proceeds to post walls of text.

Secondly, learn to tank your damn ship. Hi sec space doesn’t mean zero risk from player interaction.

You say eve is a skill-less game of spreadsheets. I would propose this is due to your play experience. Mining in eve is a basically skill-less game of spreadsheets, and you are clearly ignoring some of the variables you are in control of if an alpha in a catalyst is breaking your gameplay (i.e. your tank).

Maybe if you took the time to understand
A: how pvp is there cornerstone of eve and mineral prices are directly influenced by asset replacement
B: pvp mechanics (the skill/knowledge you believe to be nonexistent)
then you could quit complaining and adapt.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.


(blake m miron) #13

OP::: Great post and I commend you for speaking out your thoughts and making yourself heard. I am not negative or making fun of you. But your Complaint about “Alphas ganking and suicide ganking Miners” doesn’t make sense to me. I have been mining for weeks, especially around Jita in hi-sec Caldari space and haven’t been suicide ganked once in venture or mining barge, and haven’t been ganked once in tier 1 Industrials.

If hi-sec was PURE CAREBEAR, set by CCP that no one can EVER attack anyone else in hi sec, especially Miners or Industrials, this game would be stupid and ruined. I hope you agree with this? This is a PvP game and you consent to PvP when you press that Undock button.

How the hell, with limited skills, are Alphas suicide ganking Miners? … ><

You must follow Rule 1 of Eve - Don’t fly what you can afford to lose. If you can afford 50 / 100 / 500 / 1000+ of those fitting. It is zero stress off your back and was fun to watch someone try and kill you. Please learn to fly what you can afford to lose and fit some tank if you have to instead of Pure Mining upgrades and Survey Scanner and Cargo Expanders.


(Teckos Pech) #14

Somebody has some keyboard diarrhea.


(Vas Vadum) #15

Nikea;;
I know how to tank a ship. Back during hulkaggedon, Goons and their buddies tried to destroy my hulk 6 times, failed each time. The final time they attempted, they left my ship hull with 2 hitpoints. The smack talk was great that day. “Hey wait, don’t go, you missed a spot! Oh wait, you’re in pods. Sucks for you.”

I’ve always been one for the defensive. However you can’t tank some ships to survive, because they are made to be weak and fail. Also, with enough isk, anyone can destroy any ship. I’ve not been around actively for a while so I don’t know the current game prices, but lets say you got a badly fit Mackinaw which cost 350m, 3 destroyers attack it worth 30 mill total. They win. But you got a great Mackinaw fitting worth 375 mill, but 9 destroyers come by, worth 90 mill, and still succeed.

Its all about how much ISK the other side is willing to sacrifice so your tank doesn’t generally matter unless you can make it so the other side looses more than you paid for. Which only happens when you start flying tier 1s because they are cheap and pitiful and yet people still gank them.

Miron;;
Well, I had logged in and was talking to the local miners in the territory I was in, they talked about how even the frigate mining ship alphas can use, is suicide ganked sometimes, and that they have seen a lot of suicide ganking in their area.

I agree that highsec shouldn’t be purely safe, but I don’t think Alpha clones should be allowed to affect the market in such a way. I think Alpha clones should be unable to target any player ships in highsec, possibly anywhere. Once the december update rolls around and gives alphas access to all pvp ships, they’ll be out in nullsec cloak camping every mining system in the game and helping big alliances randomly blap every mining op that starts. And like I said, I don’t think people who don’t pay to play, should be able to hurt those who do pay to play.

As I said above, I know how to survive, I’m not thinking only of myself when I make posts. I know its a concept no one understands, because everyone only ever thinks about themselves, but I don’t.

To everyone else;;
I guess if you like how things are going, then fine. I’m sorry for interrupting with my wall of text, with thoughts generated by several hours of getting back into the game and seeing the state of things first hand and talking to locals to get their side of the state of things as well. If your experience is different, then great. But I forsee bad things with the alpha pvp update that will soon come, and unfortunately even if that weren’t happening, the game is boring now. Its a full time job for miners, while pvpers just use their jobs to pay for the game and go on blast ■■■■ up sprees.

I guess now, I’ll go back to my Ark server where I can have actual fun.


(Haplo Shannow) #16

I guess now, I’ll go back to my Ark server where I can have actual fun.

Only sensible thing you’ve posted so far. You don’t understand EvE and you don’t like it so just gtfo already.


(CMDR-HerpyDerpy Hurishima) #17

Feels like people are ignoring how much money that would cost… Wouldn’t skilling your character to max require thousands of $$? i’d say probably over 10k…


(Kathern Aurilen) #18

I have to agree. I been attempted ganked on my mack at least 6 times and survived. I turn the tables and stole their wrecks. Feels good.

I probably wouldn’t survived a team of gank cats. But I do pretty good with passive mods to look untanked. I seen my local ganker switch to a battle cruiser, looking at the stats I’m sure I would live still in armor unless he brought out something like a Talos.


(Vas Vadum) #19

Actually, I’ve played for many years, I know the game. I’ve watched it change for a long time, and it just doesn’t really get any better. Still just as boring as it ever was.


(Do Little) #20

Eve has no endgame. You set your own victory conditions. The game has no defined progression - you set your own goals. That’s the essential nature of the sandbox.

Mining in highsec is no more dangerous now than it ever was - at least for those of us who know how. Yes I used to run a multibox ice mining fleet in CODE. policed territory and never lost a ship. Player knowledge and skill is a lot more important than character skill in Eve. As an industrialist, I am prey and my challenge is not merely to survive but thrive in a world full of predators. I just wish there was some way to display the number of kill rights my ships have earned!

Eve isn’t for everyone - some prefer a theme park where the developers entertain you, rather than a sandbox where players are expected to entertain each other. That’s OK but the fact that Eve isn’t the kind of game you want to play doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with it. Those of us who like Eve, like it a lot!