Who’s in charge? Thomas the Embezzler?
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That did make me laugh
And Wah you just gave yourself a new nickname in corp 
We had a new bounty claimed today and pay out has been made to the bounty hunter.
Destroyed amount
7,818,849.32
Current replacement cost
15,726,614.00
Payout 5,493,938.00
- insurance 647,307.90
- dropped 7,818,849.32
Total 13,960,095.00
Details can be found on our website at https://handsup.space Congratulations to the hunter and the one that placed a bounty.
I think we have mentioned this in one of our posts previously, if not then we have now. We will not be paying out on killmails where Concord is involved, unless you have somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% of the damage. We will be paying out on killmails involving faction police and gate guns no matter the damage amount.
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Nice kill to the bounty hunter on that 100% kill , that’s a lot of eccm you had Aiko,oh wait yes you failed a gank and needed it for the next one
And we never stop you 
Do I look stopped?
This is wrong. You really don’t want to subsidise this kind of kills with your bounty system. I can’t believe I’m having to explain this again here…
A damage dealing kill with CONCORD on it means the kill had absolutely no AG relevance, regardless of the amount of damage dealt and whether the victim died or not.
Even if the kill showed 100% damage dealt, if CONCORD appears on the kill it means by the time the ganker died the CONCORD squad assigned to that ganker had arrived and disabled him already, which in turn means the ganker dealt to the victim the exact same damage he would have dealt if nobody had been shooting at him…
And this might or might not be correct depending on the situation.
First off, you need to differentiate between faction police and gate sentry guns, because their presence on a kill correspond to very different situations.
The presence of sentry guns on the kill indicates the ganker went criminal, i.e. was killed while trying to gank something. The absence of CONCORD in those cases, however, does not necessarily mean it was a meaningful kill, as the Tornado example I gave in a previous post showed already. If you do what you said without analysing the kill, you’re opening your bounty system to be easily abused by the gankers you’re supposedly “hunting” as I explained there…
The presence of faction police alone (i.e. without CONCORD or sentry guns) usually indicates a good kill, i.e. a ganker that was caught on the way to gank something before he arrived at the destination, and paying the bounty would be correct in those cases.
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Why do you even care?
What? Why would I not?
From what I’ve seen so far, these guys are willing to learn and actually play the game instead of whining, unlike the crap I was used to while I was in AG channels…
If I kept trying to explain those things there regardless until I was banned, why would I not want to at least try to explain them here?
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Yes you are right about the concord involvement, but as we have many new players in our corp who just can’t achieve a 100% kill we decided to allow 80%, it means they have to try and put the effort in but are not excluded…
Same with the gate guns , we want people to try.
Most of us know that once concord are around we don’t have that great effect most of the time , if we don’t remove enough DPS from there fleet.
It’s a bit like killing pods no point what’s so ever , except for the odd time a ganker forgets to switch clones , we even have an overview setting with no pods but I can’t help myself 
. I do look for newer gankers who may have forgot about implants and kill there pods and it’s good fun…
There is nothing wrong with trying, what’s wrong is using someone else’s ISK to pay participants for doing so, knowing it will make absolutely no difference to the outcome of the gank…
I’m not saying you should discourage those participants from trying. I’m saying you should only pay a bounty for meaningful kills if you want your bounty system to be taken seriously. You don’t want to discourage bounty contributors either…
If you pay bounties for meaningful kills only, you incentivise participants to do it in the most effective way, i.e. by concentrating fire on one ganker at a time in order to kill one after another as fast as possible, whereas if you pay bounties regardless, you incentivise ineffectiveness in order to get as much bounty as possible…
Moreover, if you always pay for kills that have sentry guns but no CONCORD, you’re making the very mistake I explained about Tornado gankers and could very well end up subsidising the very gankers you’re supposedly “hunting”. That’s a BIG no no…
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Yes good point I’ll talk to the guys , see what they think , I think only way to stop a tornado ganker is with a killright really, especially in very high security system, they die so fast.
We just don’t want to make stuff so hard no one bothers, it’s like the Abyss gankers in and around jita , they die so fast , even if we track them and are ready concord gets them 1st, only thing left is looter, so maybe we pay out on the looter kill if the bounty target was in the same attack .
Over time I’m sure we will get there and change stuff and we plan to limit its size to keep it under control. Also it’s main purpose is to kill individuals not to be a way of stopping a gank, that’s a good bonus if it happens.
Please do keep adding your comments , they are alway constructive and of use
One thing for sure it’s made us content and we’ve had some fun with it at the same time .
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Oh wow I am now Eve famous and such great promotion, thanks princess!
Also I had no idea you were so tall or great at basketball, does your talent know no limits?
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Right now, this is NOT the path we are on exactly, but I favor the simplest simplicity possible. If you are on the kill mail you get the bounty. If the average destroyed of a gankalyst is around 1m isk, then the hunter will take in about 700k, a modest sum at best.
In order to score this they have to:
- apply for bounty permit
- look up the bounty and locate the target
- be online at the same time
if target is part of a ganking fleet they have to:
- pick a gate and wait at it and / or use intel to identify which gate to be on
- hope that specific character is used on the next gank attempt
- shoot that specific ganker
- mail in and confirm their kill
One could easily spend 30m+ hour doing all this and the stars finally align for you to shoot your single bounty target. That 700k is less than what you would make mining hi sec ore, so this seems a reasonably modest sum for a reasonably modest amount of effort. The details of this will be in flux internally and with our sponsors, just like Eve itself is.
It will be tough for a ganker to take advantage of this. We will not give known gankers / corps a permit, or if we do we have our reasons for it. If it looks like they are gaming the system we will just say no and kick them. We are not beholden to automation or CCP, only to our clients, our council, and our sense of justice and fun.
I believe the distaste for “concord whoring” is just an old school machismo hold over from people who put too much stock in zkill numbers. I do realize you can pretty much just sit at the Sivala gate and take pot shots all weekend long. Ironically people will then disparage gankcampers as boring gameplay but a mofo will sit cloaked up in a site for hours waiting on a heron and they call it patience and tactics.
For our specific purposes here It is irrelevant whether the gank succeeds or not. The point is to encourage people to shoot at other people. The fact that most of the people being shot at will tend to be gankers and criminals is just a pleasant direction we can steer.
However, this can still have an effect on ganking. One guy popping off at cats at a gate is not even going to be noticed. Three guys will start to get irritating to the gankers, they have more to deal with and are more likely to make mistakes. The real magic happens when they undock and start shooting back. At five+ guys, suddenly your pyfa numbers have less room for error and the landscape of certainty slowly starts to change.
The landscape, it is changing, slowly, but surely.
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I don’t think so.
Oh man… You’re designing a bounty system in a way that’s clearly flawed because… in the case of the cheapest possible ganking ship the payout is going to be so low that it doesn’t really matter?
Merely T2 fitting those Catalysts would take you an order of magnitude higher already. Why would you not use that as an example instead?
And why would you use such a worthless example to later say that the main purpose of the bounty system is to encourage people to participate? Why would such a low payout make more people want to participate than would without it?
And why would you take the trouble to design a bounty system for that ? You might as well simply ask for donations instead…
You’ve done the toughest part of the work to create a bounty system that people might take seriously… if done right… and you’re going to use it in a way that’s going to make other players not take it seriously and hence discourage them from contributing significant amounts of ISK to the bounty pool?
Someone wanting to support what you’re doing would be more likely to want to donate ISK to you, so you use it in whatever way you see fit, than placing a significant bounty on someone in particular…
Well, FWIW, I don’t even post my kills unless made with a KR (in which case I post them so the KR owner may see how his KR was used). That should give you an idea how much stock I put in zKill numbers…
There is nothing wrong with CONCORD whoring… as long as the player doing it does fully understand what’s going on and that those kills have no AG relevance… which unfortunately is very often not the case…
Pretending those kills have a relevance they don’t have, which I’ve seen happen often enough to make me hate them, is what’s wrong with them, not the mere kills themselves…
So you could use your bounty system to encourage both participation and effectiveness, but you’ve decided to use it to encourage participation only… And at the price of discouraging players that do fully understand how it all works and what’s going on from contributing and taking your system seriously…
This is… disheartening… And at this point I think I better leave it at that and see how it all goes…
So I’ll just ask again, like honestly, why do you care?
Well, I did care, and I already answered why… But feel free to ask that question again if nothing changes and you see me caring still … 
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Well, please don’t lose interest in our bounty system on my account. As I posted above, that was all my opinion and I am but one voice among many. We will adjust as needed. We do hear and though I disagree with many of them we are contemplating your words. There has been much discussion on the point of Concord / NPCs on kills and many don’t agree with my perspective, and I do see some reasons from the other side.
I mostly want to keep it super simple, as HR and accounting are already overworked (and at the rate this is growing verifying kill mails will become a full time job in 6 months)
For now as mentioned above, we are doing the 80% damage rule and I encourage folks to at least give it a shot in its current form, we really are listening and willing to adjust as long as it meets the goals of our corp and the community.
Thanks for the interest and discussion.
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I think the 80% figure is a good bench mark because it indicates a serious attempt to blow up the ganker ship and you are rewarding them for making a real attempt.
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