DISCLAIMER: I have not been affiliated with Provibloc, have not been in contact with them since 2016.
For those who do not know, CVA is pulling out of Providence, others within the ‘bloc’ will probably follow suit. If or rather when that happens it will be the end of NRDS space in Eve Online. The how’s and why’s of this (r )evolution are covered in many posts and podcasts elsewhere. What is more important is the future of initiatives like NRDS (Not Red Don’t Shoot):
Do we, the player base, want a region where new and experienced players alike can have a taste of nullsec life, a region welcoming to strangers as long as they don’t break the local rules ?
Is it the responsibility of the community at large to have something like NRDS space, is it valuable enough to preserve and protect on occasion ?
Is it a shared responsibility of the major blocs (panfam, imperium, legacy, etc) to keep the zone more or less intact when it really matters ? Is it in their interest ?
Many things can be said about Provibloc, or CVA, or any of the other members that are/were part of Provi. The matter at hand is not wether this bloc was run in a decent/flexible enough way, nor if it has to be Providence region. Names on the map do not matter. Nor does it matter, in my honest opinion, if the sov holder has enough firepower to fend off any level of sustained attack and endure any level of pressure, the bigger numbers at the right time in Eve always seem to win. Of course there is the power threshold that avoids that feeling of being ‘perpetually farmed as cattle’. And yes, they struggled since 2015-16, yes Provi is allegedly the poorest region on the map. That is not relevant. What does matter is the existence of a special, perhaps wider community driven and supported part of the New Eden map.
The fact is simply this: Any new sov holder for Provi will bring nothing new to the game but destroy something unique, if it isn’t NRDS space.*
Do we want to preserve this old idea or not ? Why ?
The problem with that policy is fragmentation, you can’t make group effort on anything with that kind of affiliation. When everyone is the “king” of their sandcastle, why he should care if his neighbors sandcastle is burning.
While this dysfunctional community were supported by “Test” they were somehow managing, but when “Test” got more important things to do. CVA had to face reality.
BTW if you wanna tryout 0sec, rent a system and see how things work, that’s more than easy.
Provi has 75% of all players on their KOS list. LOL. The entire idea of NRDS is nullified by their ego idiocy. I have 19 alts. 7 of them are on the KOS list and have only logged on in station once a month for the last 10 yrs. lol.
objectively, what was described by the OP is a condition which either a.) must be sustained pro bono by a significant power, or b.) must be brought into being by endorsement and doctrinal support from CCP. obviously a. was the existing situation, and a bunch of folks were made happy by what ensued.
It’s a bit like on the planet of constant rain if someone would hold up a large umbrella, all these other folks could get a lot done, but the umbrella holder-upper’s arm gets tired, and there’s no one to replace him.
Alas, from my perspective (and I watched all this develop as it did years ago) the “sustained” part was always going to be the hitch-in-the-get-along. The “everyone else” didn’t feel responsible to grow into umbrella holder-uppers, and apparently now, it’s run its course. (Way longer than I’d predicted at the time.) But, the eventuality has come, and understandably it’s sad to see something fade away that is so habituated to by so many.
non-objectively, it’ll probably be difficult to argue this idea as a concept with so many people actively involved in the present situation willing to descend upon this thread and drop their two-cents worth in by anecdotally castigating the existing situation and not elevating the discussion into the realm of “what if…?”
Oh, and alas…having more than our fair share of empathy bereft psychos in this player base will likely doom this discussion - or maybe it was doomed from the start like Provi was.
All in all, though…it is interesting because ultimately the discussion surrounds human behavior.
It’s a shame that Providence will be just another boring NBSI region like the rest of null. At least Providence was a bit different and had a story of it’s own.
You’re correct, I chose not to go into the reasons why the bloc apparently is folding. The details are anecdotal, as usual covering the whole range of Eve related shenanigans, from butt hurt to treason. You can find more info via the recent podcasts of TiS (youtube or twitch).
To my knowledge, provi bloc itself has not communicated publicly at the time of posting. For this topic on NRDS, the bloc didn’t fold because of NRDS conceptually. as far as can be made out from what is public knowledge. We’ll see if this topic gets anywhere.
It’s a shame, really. Provi will probably just turn in to another nullsec region at this point, owned by some faceless entity because every nullblock might as well just be clones of each other.
This could be seen as disingenuous or evasive. The details comprise the why of it all. You can’t be over here doing this if you’re over there doing that. From what I understood at its inception this idea involved venturesome players piggy-backing on security provided by a well-established organization. As long as this greater group persisted in providing security, the venturesome players could play in null sec. Should they tire of the role, or be distracted, or even lose their material wherewithal this support would decline and the venturesome players would either have to a.) find a replacement, or b.) go their separate ways and a good time was had by all.
That’s what led me to speculate a third alternative may have crossed someone’s mind - entice CCP to endorse and offer needed support by way of doctrine (game mechanics rules) to create this Shangra La. The why of all this is indeed significant to understand it as a problem. One doesn’t need to get into who shot John?, but understanding the situation is required to ruminate about it.
For instance, what prevented the smaller groups anticipating this outcome and organizing something to put into place when this eventuality finally arose? This could have a lot to do with what were the intentions of those comprising this group…and were these intentions ever considered in terms of creating something of a lasting nature?
If it’s a bunch of people taking advantage of a situation the overseer of which has no real interest in, what makes them worthy of having this process sustained beyond the course it has run? Unless, which is another live possibility, the intention of this thread is not to discuss this so much as to try to troll for someone to sympathize and fill the breach.
If the participants don’t empathize with each other enough to have (over the years) pulled something substantial together, why should anyone else bother, including CCP, regardless of how charming an idea it was and how deeply sentimental some players became over this “experiment”?
These are points some people may think deserve consideration
in order to take this problem seriously.
IN all this I’d say CCP is most guilty for trying to take an amateur reading of human nature and turn it into something that existed in only theirs (and a certain drunken lawyer’s) imaginations - emergent game play. They failed to grasp that a certain minority sort of player floated game to game blizzarding their forums with “I know what this game needs…” posts creating the impression they should be listened to. (In the end CCP gave up the store.) These are, of course, the faux PvP players. In truth, they’re the gankers of the world wishing to have a seriously imbalanced playing field so they can go around, one-shot lesser aggressive people, rob them and ridicule them.
Any REAL PvP gamer knows the REAL PvP is in first-person shooters where everyone is pretty much equal to the task and able to give as well as they get. This, of course, is too disciplined a course for the ganker mentality…stretching the presence of an actual mind in order to use that word. In fact, good luck trying to gank in a FPS. This is what proves gankers aren’t really into PvP. It’s a thin, paper thin, ruse that CCP fell for. (They weren’t the only ones.)
That’s the only human nature CCP fell to, someone else’s…even the pursuit of the almighty dollar took a heavy hit as a direct result. Of course, this is all a matter of public record at this point. What some are calling a state of flux is actually just waiting for all the last shoes to fall.
It already has been a regular null ses region for many years. Do not fool yourself with the NRDS nonsense. When 90% of the playerbase is on a KOS list you aren’t being NRDS anymore, you just temp blued a few otherwise inconsequential players.
It’s neither. The topic I created is not about what happened inside Provi bloc. I’m not privy to inside information, and, if I were, I would not be in a position to share it.
An analysis of the viability of NRDS would certainly be a useful addition in this discussion, but not necessarily the viability of NRDS as implemented by CVA&friends for 15 years. That would be a lesson learned at most.
The discussion as intended here is about the usefulness or importance of having something like NRDS space in some shape or form.
For most of the big fights toward the end, I was in a Guardian on the other side. I am part of WAFFLES and therefore part of Rekking Crew, the group which fought against them.
The battlefield defeats that Provi experienced weren’t the main reason why CVA decided to leave. Certainly they contributed, but the amount of pressure wouldn’t have shattered them if they had not collapsed from within due to internal issues.
In the end, it’s really not clear whether or not TRC will control all of Providence. As a whole, RC doesn’t care about sov and it’s mainly just TRC which is concerned with living in the region. TRC might be the largest alliance in RC, but they’re not the only ones. The executor of RC, Rocket X, has said a few times on such shows as Talking in Stations that he is open to the possibility of ProviBloc alliances staying around or new NRDS entities moving in.
In the end, the collapse was CVA collapsing and decided that the coalition must fall with the alliance. Other groups had come and gone over the years, some were inactive, but CVA was always the lead. And when their leadership collapsed, they decided that it would be over.
Are you sure? Maybe it was ‘B’ and . . . CCP has just finally yielded to human nature.