The RP “thing” was already a thing of the past when I joined them in 2012. I was with Sev3rance, there was exactly zero RP in that alliance. Perhaps there was some RP in the bloc, but not in the last decade. The occasional shout of “Amarr Victor” in local after a guudfight was nothing more than a pinch of salt to season the victory.
Exactly.
I’m all for people or groups trying a different route but at the same time it birthed weak players which I’m very much against. I had an alt in there a few years ago and the amount of carebear stare babble was excruciating: “we can take these guys”, “no we can’t”, “why not?”, “because you and your ilk are clueless”. Not all obviously, lots of CVA was quite capable but they survived because they were the special kid in the class, the one that soils its pants, and the rest of the class just let it slide.
I love newbies (they taste crunchy with some milk) but I HATE clueless people, while there majority of nullseccers are mostly oblivious to facts and game mechanics Provi was a shining beacon of dumbs.
Fair analysis. Can’t help feeling that NRDS Provi is lost content and we’ll all regret it’s loss eventually.
By coincidence, I had planned to go “home” very soon and prob join Sev3rance but obviously that’s not possible now. So I’m scrapping out my alts, selling up all assets and taking an extended break from Eve.
I’m not sure what you are referring to with “clueless”. Given the constant pressure on the region it has made for some very battle hardened groups and individuals, not weak ones (but perhaps financially poorer than usual ones), a fair share of successful theorizing and some very good FC’s for subcap fights (Jin, Core, Willaev, …). If they were that clueless in general, they wouldn’t have survived for that long, or have recaptured the whole region on multiple occasions. At least give them that…
I agree with you, the loss of NRDS sov nullsec is content lost, one option less for newer players. I hope you find a new spot soon, one that is a bit more than the omni-present fast food solution of blue donut or renter space.
That’s it, the nullbloc monoculture doesn’t interest me. Actually CCP’s recent trig invasions and the security status flipping was quite interesting so I’ll keep an eye out. Eve needs more random “Space Weather” IMO. I’ll wait and see if something comes up that looks interesting.
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i like the rp thing
Eve University has a nice spot in Syndicate for new players looking for an easy-in to try out nullsec. There is no reason to confuse the issue with the sovereignty garbage.
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and to be frank goons and pandemic accept any garbage noob nowadays 
edit:
brave to , but they are honest about it
CCP has had a stance for a long time, at least a ‘policy’ stance if not one they support by action, that the way the game is played should be left up to the players.
In reality the situation, “the way the game should be played is dictated by CCP where CCP thinks they know which way leads to more subs being paid, and in other cases is left ‘up to the players’ because CCP doesn’t really know how to design a game that leads to more interesting gameplay”.
Thus, as long as Provibloc was doing something players found interesting and it led to some subs and it didn’t require any intervention on CCP’s part, it would continue as is. When the inevitable occurred and the lack of action in other areas (due to monolothic sov blocs being essentially unassailable), bored players craving action will pile onto the available targets and strip them of their content potential.
The question is, is CCP smart enough and adaptable enough to recognize the content potential of an NRDS null sec region, and good enough at game design to find a way to take advantage of it now that they’ve created a situation where it’s unsustainable through player efforts? (Too few players, too few up and coming players able to reinforce NRDS, far too many power blocs sitting around with little to do to flex their sovereign might.)
CCP has long needed new systems that actually encourage player engagement rather than stalemate. Setting up a region or two with new rules of engagement might help. Something as simple as making the KOS list automated in an NRDS region and having a new ‘weighted standings’ mechanic could create an entirely new style of conflict.
KOS list - anyone engaging in illegal aggressive action in an NRDS region gains a KOS flag, specific to NRDS regions, which only decays while actually at risk in space (eg. non-tethered) in an NRDS region.
Weighted Standings - Players have an NRDS standings counter. Corps and alliances have a weighted NRDS standing composed of the average NRDS of their members.
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Thank you for addressing one of my earliest questions about responsibility.
I think that’s the way it should remain, no interference, no special interest groups anywhere, the same mechanics for everyone, nothing that can be taken as favoritism. Allegedly the Blackout (not to mention the sov/structure mechanics) worked in the opposite way, and hurt Providence more than other regions, as an unintended and unfortunate consequence of changes the publisher made. The reasons are perhaps more situational and time related, too many connections to null, high and lowsec, too few “eyes on gates”, hence collapse of the Intel channels and advance warning during blackout, resulting in far less log-ins, smaller fleets, etc.
While CCP could certainly create a type of preferential nullsec sov zone for newer players guarded by some “Beefeater alliances” (like the famous guards in the Tower of London), or make the extra tools and discrete changes you mention, it would make that zone an even bigger target than Provi ever was, because of even less acceptance by the general player base. I am convinced the answer lies with the players, not CCP. We would not accept interference from CCP either to deal with “blue donut situations”. The fact of the matter is that there is no “blue donut”, only an ever changing collection of different ingredients, blue today, some red tomorrow, nips blown up, and if we’re lucky, a huge conflict that real world news can pick up and give us free advertizing. It’s all just a snapshot at a given moment, although the snapshots often have to be far apart in time to see the change.
Is NRDS still possible ? In its old (Provi) format, at the current political state of nullsec, maybe if one of the largest coalitions would harbor it. I think NRDS without the reward of sovereignty (e.g. in lowsec or npc nullsec) is just masochism, attracting fortune hunters, not pilots loyal to a group or an idea. Other NRDS formats exist, think of Signal Cartel which operates in w-space.
In any case, I’m of the opinion any solution has to come from the players, not the devs. We have to be the ones who are adjusting and adapting, whatever they’re throwing at us. The demise of Provi had political origins in the broader sense, not practical/mechanical ones.
NRDS already exists. It is called highsec. It is very, very popular with the playerbase and CCP mostly leaves it alone. The Beefeaters are Concord and the faction police. Hardly anybody ever tries to invade it.
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You’re incorrect here. As Xeux just said, NRDS already exists in high sec. The players aren’t doing very much that’s interesting with it. NRDS could easily exist in any area of Null Sec - the players aren’t doing anything much with that either.
Provibloc existed because some specific groups wanted to support it, not ‘the players’. They had their own reasons for doing it, other players had their own reasons for making use of it. There’s no particular incentive for anyone to maintain it, and in the long run, it’s a vulnerable position to be in. ‘The players’ aren’t going to agree to maintain an unstable situation just so some newbros can come along and get a taste of Nullsec while getting farmed by anyone who feels like it.
The whole “the devs should leave it up to the players” is a mistaken notion. The concept of ‘sandbox’ game is based on the idea that the materials and tools are provided to the players, and the players decide what they are going to make with that.
To make a sandbox interesting, you provide sand, water, small shovels, big shovels, shaping tools, buckets, cups, cones, and shells and figures to decorate them with. Then you run various contests and incentives and set some basic rules, and then you leave it up to the players.
Based on that analogy, in my opinion, CCP has provided a couple of piles of sand, a few buckets and shovels, and a rule about “don’t throw sand in the little kids faces”.
If they had a half-decent game designer on board, they could come up with some basic tools and mechanics changes that would lead directly to players engaging with each other in more and more interesting ways. Instead they get half a job done, again and again, and then pretend it’s somehow up to the players to make something interesting out of their failed efforts.
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Absolutely not.
To me REAL PvP is when players fight over something that will really matters and affect their game experience (such as controlling a territory or taking an important amount of in game money/assets for their benefit), and will as a consequence use every possible method at their disposal to cruch the other player, which is literally their ennemy at this point.
What you describe is just a friendly skirmish, with no reason to participate besides “for fun and competition”. That’s not what I call “real” PvP. That’s mostly good for teenagers in need of E-penis, or adults who are still insecured and need to boost their ego by being well positionned on a meaningless leaderbord.
I like when PvP actually mean fighting players to reach some in-game goals, not doing some kind of friendly little duels with no purpose.
As for the main subject of the thread. Well…
That’s pretty much the point. NRDS with Providence is/was interesting because it combined this concept with the addition of some specific Null Sec mechanics, making it a good place to learn things as a new player.
But NRDS as a concept already exist directly in the game without any help from players.
You can’t have it both ways without losing something precious, in this case the freedom in the sandbox. NRDS sov nullsec is a player style choice. Highsec space is a relative safe part, hardwired into the game via tough, enforceable rules of engagement. One can’t change those, and that’s why “the players” don’t do a lot with them. There are no rules to “play with”, bar the valiant attempts of suicide ganking, baiting and wardecs. The whole notion of nullsec is independence and “make your own rules” (like NRDS).
That’s right, it is a choice, exactly proving an earlier point. But then you equate “the players” with the entirety of the player base. That is not what was meant. It’s clear that if everything depended on consensus by “the players” there would be no EvE Online but a “connect the red dots” kiddies game at best.
And look at what grand things were/are being done with those simple elements for close to two decades. Especially in nullsec. The creativity and ingenuity of people seem to come out stronger the less pre-defined the elements are. Compare it with Lego’s or Fischer-Technik of say 60 years ago and today. When you buy a set now you can build a shiny functional model, or a few at most. Back then you had basic building blocks that were as versatile as the imagination of its user, accompanied by an instruction booklet with samples. Many models made were crappy, others were marvels of creativity. Bottom line, the more defined and functional the elements are the less the demand on the player’s creativity is,
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This is VERY true. Somehow a bunch of people want more regulation in a sandbox, just like how they slap the sandbox moniker on pretty much any game that isn’t an obvious roller coaster.
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if you were the head of CVA and had the power, would you stay and fight knowing that there is a high chance you cannot win??
Well…they did for 15 years…
What are they preserving by giving up?
“curators of truth” indeed
EVE University has been corrupted. How corrupted? Who can say?
If you are going to join them, you might as well go all-in and join Horde or Karma Fleet or . . .
NRDS is out dated and stupid. Maybe back in the day it worked (2004) but this is eve in 2020 and I mean no one cares? I’d NBSI is clearly a superior policy because at the core of eve we are all in competition with each other. Sometimes gunboat diplomacy is required to settle an issue.