You're something I would have done to save Eve online and ccp


(radkid10) #1

I would have tried doing a fundraising campaign before I would have tempted to sell my company if I was in charge of CCP before I would have tempted to sell it

I would have asked the player base if they would be interested in paying a little extra to keep the game alive through crowdfunding

I give Eve online 3 more years before it shuts down or CCP loses complete control over it

I would also give up the Eve online source code to the community if I had to make the decision to shut the game down so everybody would be able to have their own private servers after its lifespan is done


(Omnathious Deninard) #2

CCP didn’t have much control of the sale if you would have read the dev blog.


(Salvos Rhoska) #3

Takes more than money to keep a game alive.

CCP could have sold back in 2016 for twice this price, iirc, at ~$940mil.


(zluq zabaa) #4

And then? CCP was owned by a small group of large investors before. They felt it is the right time to sell. In their world, money trumps everything else. Whatever companies they buy, hold or sell - it’s only about making money in the process. A fundraising campaign can finance your friends music video, but not the financial thirst of investors. Also, where do you think the money, taken there was a fundraising campaign, would have gone to? Do you think that a couple hundred k would have stopped the former owners from selling for a total of $425m? They wanted to turn their shares into liquid and there was a buyer who took the entire package, rather than buying off the filet parts. Taken the circumstances, this is rather good, as it means that EVE can keep running.

And then? How much more are you willing to pay? And what do you think it would change? Is it your belief that with such a campaign you could double the yearly revenue of the company? What kind of signal would that send? Company barely kept alive by players charity? Nah, this could easily decrease the valuation of the entity, despite showing for a loyal customer base. And if the valuation decreases, the owners have to settle for a lower sale in the end.

Look: this is capitalism. Don’t worry, I will spare you my usual communist propaganda, just give a tiny bit of context in simplified terms. In capitalism an entity such as a company is interesting for investors if they see the potential for growth or at the very least a stable and good revenue stream without the danger of the entity losing value. That’s how investors make money, that’s the reason why they put money into companies: make more money. On that level it does not matter how useful or nice the company is for its customers: if it doesn’t make the investors rich(er), it is not going to find investment. If the company is already owned by investors, as CCP was, these investors want to see their thing through. It means that they wont hold their shares forever, unless they expect a great rise in value or the incoming dividends are superb compared to their investment. Stable in the longterm is not often what investors are looking for.

CCP and EVE are working fine, all is good. Investors don’t care about that. From the customer perspective a perfectly fine working company can be deemed unprofitable by investors and get shut down, split and sold off in parts from one day to the other. This did not happen to CCP, which means that the new investors seek to profit from aspects of the company they couldn’t profit when buying single parts. Or they may even see the chance to grow CCP again, from a business perspective and in turn grow from a customer perspective.

All of this will probably mean change to how we play the game, at least over time. But the truth is, that within the current economic system there is no place for stable companies: there is only growth or digestion. We’ll see which of the two happens to EVE in the next few years.

There is one thing that may have worked, but it would have required that thousands of players organize themselves for the good of the game. collectively put those $425m on the table and use the dividends to pay back the loans they took. It’s possible, but most people won’t take that amount of responsibility for a game, taken that most people are not even willing to organize in such a way for much more important things in their live.

CCP is controlled by whoever owns it. The owners determine who is going to be CEO and possibly a few other chief positions. The control below that level is held by the management, but they are always controlled by shareholders. It was like this before and it is like this now. Unless P.A. already decided to digest CCP (which is possibly, but then they could have bought off the parts they wanted), EVE may actually have a chance to not only keep on going, but grow again. Your pessimism or my optimism have not much influence on the process.

There is no decision to shut the game down. And if it ever comes to that, I’m sure some Dev will release everything we need. But: do you realize that the charm of EVE is playing on one server together? Everybody running their own server would be quite boring. Actually there already is a clone out there and to my knowledge it is not used much, I guess because people like the communal aspect of the single shard game more than anything else.


(Salvos Rhoska) #5

/facepalm…


(zluq zabaa) #6

do it much much harder


(Cypherous) #7

Actually thats less likely now, while an investment company might not care if the games source were released, a parent company who owns and operates its own MMO wouldn’t want to just freely give that out to anyone who could potentially become competition, and thats before you get to any code that doesn’t directly belong to CCP in the form of 3rd party libraries used for any feature, with the sale to pearl abyss the chances of that source being released shrank massively


(zluq zabaa) #8

I see your point. Maybe my assumption, that a rouge CCP Dev would do that, is wrong. However, the cat is already kind of out of the bag, isn’t it? I think I may not link it here, but there is some stuff out there.


(Cypherous) #9

You’re referring to the rather old server emulator, that last i checked, didn’t even work entirely, that was reverse engineered it wasn’t using leaked source, the same goes for other “private” servers out there, most of them are a result of people reverse engineering it and just writing a server that processes what it gets sent and responds in a way the client understands


(zluq zabaa) #10

You are right. To my knowledge there wasn’t any leaked source. However, the question stands of what would happen in case P.A. decided to dismantle EVE altogether. What I didn’t mention in my original reply to OP, is that “leaking the source” would help only so far, as players would need to rebuild the environment anyway, lest they can afford a setup similar to what CCP is running. In which case, it would cost a lot and they’d also have all kinds of upkeep. So this “I would leak the source” idea seems to assume things being simpler than they are.


(Mina Sebiestar) #11

Rather low bar for once great game,if this sell don’t translate to some significant change in terms of investment and focus this shadow of a game will continue on its path to graveyard.


(zluq zabaa) #12

Yeah, but compared to the death it should have had years ago according to a bunch of people, it’s quite good. If you do understand the financial implications that any company has to deal with, this sale is probably the best thing that could have realistically happened. At least now there is some chance that the new owners push for EVE focussing on its core strength.

Look, it’s not like any investor ever really cares if you or we are having the game just like we want to have it. Interests may be aligned for a while, but that is purely coincidental. If they can make more money, they will. If they don’t make enough (as in: more and more), things will change. Likewise, it’s not that most players raelly care about the economical implications a game company has to deal with. It’s not like many are willing to take a mortage in order to invest in the game to keep it like it is. CCP, as in the people who do stuff, not the economic entity, have to navigate these two different interests: players vs. investors. They get lucky, things work great for a while. But at some point the inherent contradictions of the interests of players and investors will crash, the people operating the company have to catch it somehow and look for ways to go on. Or actually they don’t. Enough pressure from both sides, investors and players, and the people operating the company may just decide that for themselves there are better things to do, better opportunities to be had, than constantly being the buffer in between.

Lucky for us, the people who work at CCP love this game and go far beyond the regular efforts to keep it going.


(Cypherous) #13

Its a good question, i imagine they would look at the source and see if it could easily be re-purposed, as far as the backend goes its proven it has the ability to scale massively, while doing an insane number of calculations, i could easily see most of the work being re-purposed for another MMO or by licensing the code out to another developer to work on,they would probably just end up liquidating most of what makes CCP CCP and migrate staff over to new jobs, i think the death of EVE would result in the death of CCP as we know it

Strictly speaking a small scale EVE server wouldn’t take that much in the way of resources, i remember when i went to fanfest back in 2007 they had a tournament server set up that was running off something smaller than the average desktop PC, its only if you wanted to replicate the entire thing and still be able to host the game for 40,000 players at a time that you would need expensive infrastructure


(Solonius Rex) #14

Ridiculous.

This isnt a charity.

They already do. Its called subscription.

Nah.

No. They own the code. Its their property, the companys property. This would never happen.


(Ima Wreckyou) #15

I guess you just don’t know what you are talking about and what happened. CCP was owned by investors and they sold the company to another company. There was no issue with EVEs profitability and nothing a crowd funding campaign could have changed in any way.


(King Drax) #16

I would have added additional servers… new universes. Give new players a chance to start on the same level as everyone else and slowly release content. There was a great feeling before when battleships had prestige. Right now, there’s just too much in Eve. It’s too big and too complicated.


(Yigal Tzadok) #17

Simple i’d release apocrypha2

Main features:

  • A new race enters new eden and abducts Hilmar
  • Real collisions
  • Zero-G flight
  • Ambulation
  • Undust Tournament ® in combination with player built stargates

Little things:

  • Towbeam
  • Podguns
  • Multicrew ships
  • Structure boobytraps

Graphical and technical updates:

  • Added green and purple skin tone (scales optional)
  • 1 second server tick limitation removed for the new flight and warpspeed to look better
  • No more lag

And the latest news flash just got in:

Agents have took a stand against illegal bot activity and now hand out killrights with intel


(catriana Kanemeate) #18

I just came back in the past month from a 6 year hiatus (Work/Kids). Blinged out a Tengu and hit up WH space. Ship exploded to a gate camp at Jita/Perimeter on my third trip out. Were I someone who had just begun the game, it might have turned me completely off. For me it merely reminded me even the heart of high sec is no place for autopilot even when taking care of things in the same room of the house.

Part of what brought me back was the single shard, opening new shards would have just made the world feel more empty. I mention the above story only to illustrate what is more likely to turn off a new player before they realize a ship is like ammo. Expendable.

As a returning player, and I imagine the key problem with new players, is the issue of finding a corp. (This would have taken the sting out of losing their first ship some for a new player I’d imagine.) While it may seem obvious for long term players, it’s not so simple for those out of the loop, either from long absence or just new. This game is not based around solo gameplay to truly experience what makes it fun. At least it wasn’t before and that still appears to hold true.

I have no idea on the fix for this, but I think making corp finding way easier as a community would be a better solution than opening new shards. Just my perspective.


(Nico Boru) #19

Eve will be here forever. I decree it.


(Ildrara) #20

Hire a security team that actually wipes out bots.