ZKill have been kneecapping EVE for far too long (some evidence)

Which is why I withdrew access to my api years ago in null following alliance policy, and I just haven’t restored it yet.

lol, so freaking what. You’re obviously obsessed with ISK value which everybody knows Eve doesn’t even portray it correctly.

Going by kills and losses, I killed 3 ships and lost 3 ships. Anyway, doesn’t really matter since I don’t care about it and it’s definitely not something I base my gameplay on.

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You mean you may have lost a lot more than just 6.19b ISK? I agree

For someone who always calls other liars, you tend to lie on things that are just super easy to check. Or is that already called a bullshitter?

Dude, if I don’t care about a particular feature of a game, I don’t join discussions about this feature and call it “a blight up on this game”.

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Wow, you’re not only dense, you’re as dumb as dirt and just about as worthless too.

Most of those kills were from NPC’s while doing the Advanced Military Career Agent missions. Those aren’t listed on the actual stats for my character.

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Let the kids have their leaderboards. It’s even a piece of intel that can help one survive.
If someone is embarrassed by one’s losses, perhaps it’s time to make better decisions in the game ?

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I find this really interesting, and I kind of have conflicting opinions on Zkillboard.
Look me up if you like, my record, especially for someone trying to get better at PvP is atrocious. This has been used against me in a few ways, alliances saying “nope” you die too much, to a few nitwits outright mocking me. I don’t care about being mocked, the people doing it aren’t people I want to be around anyway. However having it used as a tool to keep someone who is trying to learn PvP from joining a PvP alliance kind of aggravates me and causes me to wonder what their actual goal is, maybe just to have a lot more kills than deaths rather than actually teaching perhaps, I don’t know.
I don’t look at Zkillboard most of the time, when I do it’s to figure out how I failed, or to see some of my older fittings to see if I can improve them, but that’s me, I would rather play Eve than screw around on the web.
The flip side of the people doing the mocking are the ones who talk to me after they kill me, the most recent ones took the time to show me the fits they were flying and actually linked screen shots of my ship in relation to theirs also using older versions of mine from Zkillboard. I learned a lot from these people and enjoyed talking to them immensely. They used Zkillboard as an instructional tool. And it worked.

As far as removing it goes I would say no, it’s useful for things other than gloating, thought is used for that too. I don’t much like it when corporations and alliances make decisions based on Zkillboards statistics but I understand why they do it and it’s their corporation or alliance so I really don’t matter in terms of what my opinion is on how they use it. If I were really good at PvP to the point where I could teach it I would use Zkillboard to recruit “snugly” people and teach them to be a badass, but I’m not, at least not yet.

If you do bother to look at my record bare in mind that in every one of those fights I fought back with the exception of the ones where I died before knowing I was in a fight, those were fairly common when I was really new, I just didn’t know what was happening.
Looking back some of my fights, and a lot of my fittings are hilarious, and the only real way I have of actually looking back like this is to use a tool I’m not all that fond of.

Do I think it leads people to gloat like assholes? Yep, I do. Do I think it’s used to essentially discriminate against others? Absolutely. But it’s still a tool and right now there’s no replacement for it that I’m aware of.
Is it a blight like @Mr_Epeen said? Good question, I honestly don’t know, I suppose that depends on how it’s being used. There are times when I see stuff in people’s profiles using it that really piss me off, but like in case of the people who used it as a teaching tool it becomes invaluable.

Just about any tool can be used properly or improperly, you can use a hammer to build a house, but you can also use it for involuntary dentistry.

EDIT: I I misquoted @Mr_Epeen the blight comment was a post or two down from what he said.
Sorry about that.

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This is a perfect example of what “the news” should be, a presentation of facts letting the observer come to their own conclusion.
What people do with raw information is an individual choice, and Zkillboard is just that, the raw information.

There is a very big difference between “Bob’s Orca was killed this morning by three Catalyst pilots” and “LOL, what a douche, look at this idiots fit, those guys killed that Orca with three Catalysts”.

One is news, the other is opinionated editorializing.

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Without zkillboard, Eve would be a totally different game to experience.

Whether in a good or bad way is entirely subjective, because it can be a thing of pure ego and social interaction or a thing of practical means for intel and setups.

Personally, I would love to be able to experience Eve without it, and see how the practical and intel part plays out between communities in the game.

I could also very much do without the toxic ego and juvenile element it encourages …

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Every killmail tells a story and it’s fun to share those stories and reminisce. I even admire the intel gathering you can do with them.

If it weren’t for killmails i wouldn’t have gone out of my way to hunt a few individuals for their bling fits. So in that regard, it does lead to content.

If you don’t care about killboards you can happily ignore them.

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What if instead you heard of said bling fits via an ingame player-run association that actively hunts to provide that info ?

What if you had to pay to benefit that service with ingame currency ?

It’s possible to take a step beyond a personal and egotistic viewpoint too.

I believe it when i see it. What are they going to do? Ship scan everything they see?

Such a service could already exist, and more easily via killboards, but doesn’t.

No. Just because someone bling fit yesterday does not mean they have bling fit today. So paying for it isn’t realistic.

Lots of things are used for purposes other than intended. It only makes the gloater that much of a fool. While he gloats you can learn how he beat you.

I doubt many of them do and it’s a loss to the ones who do. Someone may be bad at PvP but can be a great spy or diplomat or builder… EVE is a PvP game but there are useful other aspects to it.
PS: Many alliances have pvp corps and pve also. Look for alliance to join and chose a corporation that does what you like and are good at in the game.

In my time , we didn’t had platforms as zkill , yet it did not stopped players to engage in PvP and frankly there was more content back then on a daily basis compared to what we have now .
Time passed and we then got platforms similar to what zkill is today .
Honestly i don’t think they have a negative , nor positive impact on the game … with or without them things will be the same as usual.

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I not saying I want it removed just anonymous. I used to use the killboard myself to watch what fit people in the abysm use.

I just saying this an idea that deserves to be explored, My “theory” is that this will encourage to the most risk-averse people go out and do more pvp, And I tried to back up this theory with some studies that prove it.

I remember CCP did a psychology study of the player base. I would love to see that results.

I know people in this forum have been mostly against the idea but I seriously doubt the people posting here is a representative sample of the whole eve population.

And the end I think it is an idea that deserves to be explored. Is a fact that when people identities are concealed they tend to be more daring.

Perhaps some experiments like “black zones” or a paid “module” . How people would react I wonder ?

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If you want to make kill info anonymous, you need to remove killmails, as the winner still can share it with whatever website like is happening today. Even if you remove killmails the winner can still manually share loot and name, but this would be open to manipulation.

If people are ashamed of losses, removing killmails will do nothing. The argument is a strawman, this won’t convert a sheep into a wolf. The mental barrier you have to jump is being able to risk management, handle potential loss, and being aggressive in your actions.

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The usual toxic DMC response. Why they still let you post here is beyond me. Always the same with you, lying and insulting others

And how is that even remotely relevant? You still lost those ships and they appear on the killboard.

Now tell us again how you don’t care about killboards but call them a “blight up on this game”?

Or you know you could do the mature thing, apologize for the uncalled toxicity and insults and just go enjoy your daily PvE without bothering other people who enjoy a scoreboard in their computer game.

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In order to prove your thesis you would have to reference scientific articles that studied aspects of the situation you refer to, with replication of the exact same circumstances that are key to our environment, namely the extra layer of anonimity via the character. In other words, a matching, relevant study would have had to be done. Even then, the proof would not be yours, but theirs.
Quoting from and referring to articles that look related but miss a few key details are at most introductory to a study you will perform (or haven’t performed in this case). At most you can call your theory a working hypothesis - the necessary step before initiating your research / study / experiment.

Risk averse people won’t do pvp willingly, regardless of killboards. Perhaps they are the ones that care a lot about killboards ? And that is not scientifically proven but comes from years of experience.

One thing that does make them less pvp/risk averse is a good SRP, and good guidance. Moreover, it’s hard to change the attitude of a person who hates losing - another interesting factor - and is ashamed of having lost some encounters. Sadly, that person will also rarely grow out of it and improve himself as a player, or see killboards for what they are, a piece of intel.

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Suicide ganking is about as risk averse as it gets. Yet we have players more than willing do it on a grand scale. They only use KBs to shame the people whose ships they bravely blow up.

Mr Epeen :sunglasses:

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An Interesting Topic.

The OP is most likely correct and even ZKill states the following:

‘Remember, every PVP killmail has two sides, the victim and the aggressors. Victims often don’t want their killmails to be made public, however, the aggressors do.’

So as a Consummate Carebear you would think I would argue for their removal, especially if you look me up in ZKill :laughing:

Well NO!

I would like them expanded, with the main proviso of the Victim being made Anonymous unless they have registered with ZKill like me.

Why would I like that?

Well as a Consummate Carebear, ZKill shows me where all those who really love PvP are at the moment in almost real time and in relation to the system I am in or I am going too. :slight_smile:

Overall it is easier to use than the Filters on the in Game Map and shows a lot more information, like are all the kills due to a Wardec, Incursion or Carebear Ganking. Finally I can have ZKill open in the browser on my ancient Netbook, all while I am game.

While it does not replace scouting ahead. It does save a lot of time if you were planning a long journey only to find a system near the end is currently full of dead Miners or Freighters.

So apart from the OP’s view on ZKill, ZKill’s main use for me has been in helping to keep me off of ZKill. :grinning:

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Are you the guy who lost 6 Kronos in 1 week? Because I found him looking for fits. And I thought you might be him

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