While I am not particularly pleased with CCP as a company, I do think it’s important to keep in mind that the changes of the past and their outcome are only clear to us because hindsight is 20/20.
From what I gather, the theory was that if people could make more money and build more ships that they’d be more willing to go out and lose those ships. Eve ISK is created out of nothing. NPCs who pay bounties have an unlimited supply and print it at will. Asteroids, anomolies, missions, all of these things are created from nothing. Inversely, ships destroyed go nowhere. The components used in their construction are removed from the game when they’re destroyed. The balance of creation and destruction is mostly up to player behavior, which is very hard to predict so I’m inclined to cut CCP some slack for their past decisions. It is feasible that players could have taken a bend towards getting into more fights that they could now more easily afford instead of taking the bend towards stockpiling. I can see being reluctant to take away what’s already been given, too, because people always react badly to any nerf.
I don’t think scarcity is a bad thing, especially when we know that it’s expected to be temporary, at least at this level of severity. I am not surprised people hate it, though. People complain at any change in the meta and this one doesn’t have any clear cut winners to praise it.
I did ‘like’ one of the OPs posts, but not because I agree with it per se. I asked for a more complete description of his situation and he wrote one for me. I appreciate when people go to the trouble to fulfill a request I make.
I don’t think scarcity is really going to fix the underlying problems Eve has, though. I know it’s not a popular position, but my opinion is that making highsec aggression prohibitive has been a major factor in selecting for players that are highly risk averse. As things stand, if I want to opt into highsec wars (even as only a defender) I have to pay for a station I may not otherwise want or need along with an expensive core. This makes it very hard for players who would be inclined to risk a few subcaps to get some action.
I feel like highsec is, as much as any area of space, meant to be a place of conflict. It just so happens that the rules of conflict in highsec are more formal, like a gentleman’s duel. Until Highsec caters to destroyers as much as it does to builders, I think Eve’s fundamental problems will remain. The real core problem is that the current system selects for new players who are carebears who want nothing but to create and against new players who would be pirates that balance that creation with destruction.
Heh, the two people above me are way off base. If they really wanted a free for all shoot em up area in New Eden then they’d go to Low Sec space, which is what Low Sec space is for. Players there can’t claim Sovereignty and Low Sec space isn’t policed by Concord.
Problem is those players want easy KM’s so they stay in High Sec space attacking Industrial ships, all the while hiding behind Concord game mechanics while they come here to slander law abiding Capsuleers who wish to do other career choices besides PvP.
Before the wardec mechanics changed to structure based i was not the aggressors in wardecs. I was the one being wardecced. (Note that Interstellar mining Company are the industrial alts of Nanofiber Bolts)
You’ll never be able to convince selfish people that taking part in their share of destruction (both by killing and dying) isn’t a “career choice” as much as it is an obligation to have a balanced, healthy in-game environment. It’s a very strict player base dichotomy in their eyes: players who PvE, and players who PvP. “let the PvEers PvE, and let the PvPers PvP.”
But how do the PvPers make their money in order to fund their losses? The first answer is of course “don’t care, not my problem,” but if the question is asked by someone whom they don’t despise, a slightly more comprehensive answer might be given, like “well, the PvP players can also PvE for income.”
The problem then becomes that everyone is engaging in PvE, but only a small fraction is engaging in PvP, and as such production outpaces destruction so much that the developers are forced to implement control measures in the form of diamond rats, alien invasions, and resource scarcity. Which, of course, the entitled PvE-only crowd proceeds to incessantly whine about, despite presenting no solutions, and offering no concessions.
Anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their ideology is scum, and not just in terms of the in-game interpretation of the term by virtue of being a pirate or a mercenary or whatever, but in real life. And you can’t argue with someone who extends in-game morality out into the realm of real life for their arguments. They’ll never agree to even attempt to try to see things from your perspective, because they consider you to be a real-life psychopath/murderer/rapist for supporting non-consensual PvP (on which the game relies for its continued existence).
This lack of compromise by one specific party to the equation is why the two sides will never get along, and why this battle will go on forever, until the game is changed to the point where one of the two groups is forced out entirely.
Does it matter? The point is that to get the same level of “return” one has to invest increasing levels of time. People don’t do that irrespective of what it is we are talking about. Scarcity is just stupid. Go look a the number at EVE Offline, this is looking quite bad.
In looking at EVE Offline…you might be right about it being an exodus. Some say it is just a summer drop after COVID, but I don’t know…I find that hard to buy.
The premise being, of course, that players are leaving because their ISK/hour is lower, and not because 99% of the time the game is boring as ■■■■ to play.
I think you are looking in the wrong area, the issue was that there was always an issue with balance in terms of production. The issue was that for many losses no longer mattered, and this is what is important.
You seem to pick on hisec only but the changes to the game were made to develop nullsec and in doing so they made already fat and bloated entities even more fat and bloated. The issue first manifested itself with the Technicium imbalance in that certain entities tied up this fat ISK font with AFK income that just sat there churning ISK out. This ended up creating acute imbalance between nullsec entities that created super dominant nullsec coalitions.
Those entities that in game through winning fleet victories managed to gain control of the best moons. Of course they had to defend it, but what happened is that they could, because it gave them a leg up in terms of SRP and recruitment due to this. While other alliances could not match the SRP and would after a short period were pounded into dust because losses still mattered to them.
After that CCP decided to shift indy to nullsec and went well over board with massive bonuses on structures that should never have been applied, allied to Rorqual changes and adjustments to spawn rates based on IHUB’s and use. But they removed this passive moon mining which was a good thing, and they slowly pulled back omn the Rorqual.
Production exploded and everyone was at the point of losses did not really matter. So the game became more balanced in one sense that all nullsec entities were at the same level, but it was an unhealthy level.
Hisec does not matter at all in terms of the scarcity, the issue was always nullsec. Hisec is small beer, it is mainly small groups and solo players dabbling at stuff, but this seems to be a problem to some people?
I concentrate my comments on hisec because that is the area I’ve spent almost all of my time. I would not be qualified to assess the history of nullsec or the impact of CCP’s decisions on it and I don’t want to be in the habit of making statements about topics I have little background in or experience with.
I am not sure exactly which portion of my statements you take exception to or why.
Given percentage doesnt reflect the truth … reason lower isk/per hour comes front is a REASON which spesifically can be present by numbers objectively easy to reflect . SO simply objective easy to proof results to legitmise decisions …
Last couple of months many of my friends also stop playing EvE and none of them with reason of lowered income… Plus … my husband and and his crew still playing with given conditions… and the ones who are leaving… they all consider to leave with different reasons…
Which none of them bring this to forums… because its pointless… we all know troll reactions . and classic forum culture… definately not a good place to reflect and talk about those kind of things. Easy to end up with get your post closed by ISD or get yourself banned … noone wants that . Anything else than objectively presenatable with numbers will be under fire… Lol even people give a reason like this OP … people begin to comment like ooh adapt change… uh oh cry baby …
SO everything is valueless… disposable… dismissable… many people reflct this with their answers …
fact is…
Every individual matters.
Every human being matters…
the way they feel and reflects… matters…
One player doesnt take always only his/her alts out of game … they very often take out their friends out of this game too…
and their friends take out others…
Most of the time … emotional reasons are more important and ground breaking than those hardships like lowered incomes ect… Hardships may also binds people together as well as cause them to leave … there is some decision maker “CEMENT” aspects there … if those aspects are not presented …then NOT hardships cause leave … lack of these cement values cause people to leave.
Loosing trust… loosing faith , feeling wasted ,with several reasons …
unfortunately… there is lot of people around here just ready to sink their claws to anyone who reflect those very important values… see those things as weakness… which reason is they are the ones actually weak and detached… they living on denial and fear… and looping in their rat wheels.
Cancelled my subscriptions on both my accounts due to the industry changes being the last nail in my coffin, hamstringing me where I had worked hard to skill towards… I still have 3 months left be fore my Omega time expires - if nothing positive changes in that time I will also have to leave - EVE as an industrialist has become a second job, where I used to enjoy this, now it is work.
Ofcourse High-sec matters largest alliance in the game is in High-sec, making T1 battleships need stuff from outside High-sec was a kick in the bollocks to the small industrialist. It’s not just scarcity that’s hurting numbers a lot of problems right across the board and CCP seem to be oblivious to the voiced concerns of it’s playerbase.
Waste of time, the people screwing up the game don’t care, eventually they will update their resumes and tell their new employer that marketing screwed up the software.
I know you have a hisec focus, as we have talked before, but I was trying to explain that while a majority of players operate in hisec, the issue of abundance and massive ISK fonts was primarily in nullsec, so I wanted you to see that.
I took no exception to your statement. I believed that a limitation had to be placed on war deckers to stop blanket wars, but on the other side of things I wanted entities to be able to declare two wars against other entities without having a structure. I think having a structure to make it so you can be war decked is a bit naff in one sense, but it was needed because of blanket war decs, because it was making people give up on Eve.
There is balance in hisec, the players who create are matched by a voracious subset that destroy and do so very well. And over the time I have played as Dracvlad they actually had their life made easier which is why so many of them made such vast amounts of ISK, mostly from nullsec players bringing their stuff to market.
Hisec does not matter in terms of scarcity. What I mean by that, is that Hisec is not where the issue was. But CCP had to stop nullsec from coming in and plundering hisec in the same mass mechanical way they did in nullsec.
To address a point above, one of the main reasons why I quit is the nerf to ISK/hour and ore/hour. That alongside indy nerfs, rorq nerfs, anom nerfs, cyno changes, fighter changes, HAW changes and resist nerfs favouring kiters over brawlers.
Did not work out though did it null blocks have moved in anyway, and all the scarcity changes have affected solo mission/industrial pilots like myself. Waiting for CCP to adjust those changes could take years, we all know when it comes to redoing changes made to the game CCP moves at a glacial pace.
The game is completely broken it’s not just one thing, you are correct across the whole spectrum of gameplay pilots are being hammered, and all we hear from CCP is nothing/nada/zip/zero a couple of meetings with the new CSM and Brisc putting out statements saying concerns have strongly been communicated(don’t know the exact words he used just my interpretation). I’m ■■■■■■■ furious a game heavily invested in, time and money spent, going to the ■■■■■■■ dogs. “You’ll be back” seriously I want to ■■■■■■■ scream i’m that pissed.
I take exception to pretty much your entire post… mainly because it sounds like a griefer ranting about high sec space… just to touch on a couple of things…
You say High Sec is meant to be a place of conflict and should cater to pew pew players who want to destroy, I hate to say this but that’s what Low Sec space is meant for, those who desire wanton destruction need to stop hiding behind Concord game mechanics and go out into Low Sec space to do their destruction.
You also say the core problem with the game is that High Sec space nurtures carebear players who only want to create and the game mechanics are against pirate players who want to destroy. Again I hate to say this but High Sec space is just the opposite of what you said… Year after year there’s been numerous nerfs done to PvE content aimed at what you call ‘carebear’ players. By the way, I also take offense to the term ‘carebear’ since you’re obviously trying to make that label strictly pertain to PvE players.
I could easily list more but this is sufficient enough to explain why I take exception to your entire post…
30 years ago tons of people thought that learning a computer system called Novell Netware was the safe way to a career in the IT industry, Windows server oblierated Netware careers overnight for those that picked badly. What happened to people who used to work in coal mines? What happened to those who worked in the steel industries of the US, UK and Europe?
My point is that there are no jobs for life in the real world, why should this game be any different? You spend ages learning a skill and the jobs vanish 'cos of market forces and changes. Nothing stays static, life doesn’t and while this is just a computer game, but with its brutality and greed it’s probably one of the closest simulations to real life I’ve played.
I feel you when you say you’ve had enough but there’s a lot ex-coal miners who had to learn new skills and get new jobs after mines shut. If you like EvE you have to roll with the changes and re-train. I quit mining in EvE after the changes, I tried exploring and now I do PvE and industry, I don’t make tons of ISK but I still find it a lot of fun flitting between solo activities. Some of us it ain’t all about the ISK, it’s about the fun community and activities.
If you’re not happy then I wish you all the very best for the future away from EvE.
