A mistake made and speaking in the height of anger

Let’s not space lawyer this because that would be pretty easy to prove wrong.

World they live in? Society they are part of?

So glad all the World thinks the same and all societies are the same. Such peace and understanding everywhere.

Of people that payed sub fees?

not space lawyering anything. can I get a show of hands who know for a fact that threating to harm someone, then proceeding to make plans to follow out said threats would end up in a courtroom in the country they live in?

I totally accept everywhere can be different, but why do you think ppl are flooding away from the places where they fear for their lives? without morales, we are lost as a race.

We are all entitled to a view. It doesn’t personally affect me at all.

That doesn’t mean I can’t have a view on it. It’s a forum afterall. If we didn’t want discussion, no need for a thread.

What you need to appreciate is EVE is like unto other MMO’s as Ultimate Fighting is to Wrestling (& 1970’s UK TV wrestling at that), there are no rules (well… very few) & it doesn’t matter how you do it just as long as you get it done, by any means necessary.

Anyone who doesn’t learn & accept that is going to get badly beaten… their purse stolen & then molested while they lie stunned in the gutter trying to work out wtf just happened.

EDIT:

Which is complicated by the fact you set your own goals, so it’s practically impossible to know in advance what the other guy’s decided he needs to get done… which makes things “interesting”.

You pay sub fees to play the game. To play the game is to protect and risk the things you get in the game, and while this might not have been fun for a lot of people, I don’t think the game as a whole would be as much fun without any risk at all. Who wants to play a game you always win?

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This whole situation has fascinating legal implications.

Let’s consider the demarcation between “in game” and “real life”. CCP control the rules in game, the law controls the rules in real life.

Ergo, what business do CCP have disciplining folks for real life conduct, such as threats against other players? Put another way, are CCP acknowledging and conceding that they are, in fact, liable for the real life consequences of what their game contributes to the world?

That seems to me a difficult proposition. It is hard to see where CCP end, and where the law begins. Are we innocent before the law until proven guilty by the state? Or are we to be judged by corporate executives in foreign countries who openly associate with our adversaries?

Now, CCP are entitled to do as they wish, in regard of their ethics and corporate leadership. If they cancel a subscription, they haven’t broken any law. At most, they’ve breached contract, and the offended party can sue for what money they’ve lost.

But let’s be crystal clear on this: CCP are no kind of law. If they act, as they have in this case, it is purely a matter of ethics. CCP staff do not have standing to articulate or enforce real life laws. All they can do is say “This is what we stand for, and this is the conduct we will not tolerate in our house.”

There is the immense irony, or course. A company like CCP virtue signalling its ethics?

You wot?

The pen, having writ, moves on. The entire world knows exactly what the goons are, what the Mitten is, and what CCP are. The videos are well distributed and well known.

The legacy is established. The reputation is forged. The deeds have been done, and the world has formed its opinion.

CCP are at liberty to do as they please. They can ban gigx. They can forgive Mittani and endorse the goons and solicit their money. They can retain the staff who laughed openly at the infamous 2012 fanfest.

And they did, didn’t they?

The only thing CCP don’t get to choose is how the world sees them, and how the decisions of their leadership are enjoyed by the world.

I think it is only a matter of time before a larger, more aggressive, more rapacious entity comes along and swallows CCP whole. I would not like to be them if and when some attorney general decides to feed their sorry little company into the grist mill of prolonged public litigation. They’ll lose everything, the lawyers will get paid, and nobody will care. It won’t be just or for anyone’s benefit, it will just be a rapacious and greedy group of folks devouring another of the same kind.

As for the players, they are busy building their legacies.

Look at the Mittani, and look carefully. That poor fellow is ruined. For the rest of his life, he will be defined by his actions, by his wanton cruelty. There is no way back for him, there is no way he can get a second chance to recreate his legacy.

Pity the Mittani, and pity CCP. Time only moves in one direction, and with every passing day those folks become the folks everyone loves to hate.

If anyone at CCP has any smarts, and any regard for what is left of their legacy, they will draw a clean line under this current farce.

The CSM needs to go, and the world needs to see a culture shift that shocks and amazes the global gaming press. Even then, I doubt the owners could sell the brand.

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Its pretty nice on the 68FT-6 undock right now not gonna lie.

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Given you are probably the only person you can currently see, I’m sure your view will be reinforced by that show of hands.

gigx doesn’t live in Australia. It was all hot air, heat of the moment BS. They live thousands of miles apart. Different continents even.

You’re entitled to your opinion, no problem. Mine is no less valid. I just think a permaban of all his accounts for stupid (EULA breaking) threats made in the heat of the moment, was a bit fast.

Ban yes. Permaban? Not for me in this circumstance. It’s EVE, people say ■■■■ all the time.

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you should read the EULA, CCP can ban you at their own discresion. If you clicked accept, you also agreed that any court proceedings would be by the laws of Iceland. and even if you were successful, you would gain a max of 3 months sub.

when you break the law, by planning a crime - ccp has every right to present said evidence to the local PD for them to investigate.

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I’m not in NS but have been following the progress of the war along with all the ‘politics’ around it.

This move feels like a dagger stuck in Eve itself at a time when it’s already hemorrhaging. CCP has been so null focused claiming that the BIG NS battles is what drives players to Eve - all the while ignoring the other areas of the game. Eve finally had a group willing to stir things up and pay the iron price for the territory they wanted.

NS content was being created and it all Vanishes in an instant. The loss of assets, loss of reason to fight, removing the leader before he gets a chance to try to save what’s left of his alliance.

Anyone who thinks The Judge wasn’t encouraging GigX’s reaction and didn’t already have CCP on speed dial should go read the smugness in his AMA.

How does anyone think this is going to increase player stats? How many players are going to decide the game is rigged and they’ve had enough? Who in their right mind would read the gamer press and decide, “oh yeah, I want to play a game where I put in all that effort and it’s all for nothing”? How many ex-players who bash Eve as a game for psychopaths are going to say, “I told you so”? How many players are going to quit when CCP nerfs isk generation because nobody is blowing up ships outside of ‘staged’ fights?

And guess what? It was all planned via CSM meetings. A player representative group that somehow only represent NS.

I’m officially in the ‘End the CSM’ camp now and will no longer bother voting even though I’ve known it doesn’t matter for a while. Sorry to Steve and Noobman.

p.s. I think the dev’s do a great job, but I’m seriously starting to believe that CCP management has been Awoxed.

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The chats were in game (at least some critical ones anyway).

The things said, clearly broke the EULA. CCP can make whatever decision they like and it isn’t to do with the law, it’s to do with the EULA, which they very much control.

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if you don’t realize that threatening to harm someone IRL is morally wrong, then maybe you should check yourself into a facility.

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Risk in battle or in game as i see it people that payed with sub and use plex and whatnot to buy ship upgrades were rip off from a meeting that took place outside the game seems like hacking like social engendering which is hacking.

If you don’t realise that implying someone has a mental health problem just for having an opinion in an internet forum, then maybe that’s also morally questionable?

I think the big draw to eve is the risk involved in the game. you can do stuff morally wrong in society. something like this will get ppl interested in being the next judge jury and executioner perhaps.

I suffer from schizophrenia every day of my life, so i’m very familiar with mental illness. however I know that making IRL threats are real, and there will be repercussions. so when i’m angry, I don’t break the law. I know better, even though the voices might tell me its a really great idea.

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I agree with op. If ccp can pardon someone telling people to make someone commit suicide than they can sure as ■■■■ pardon someone who just had his whole alliance stolen from him. Gigx has apologized. Give him the same punishment as mittens

#istandwithgigx

yeah maybe, but I think it was because of this event that CCP changed the EULA to include stuff about threats etc.

BTW I lose all respect for the mittani when he pulled that ■■■■ at fanfest. As someone who lives with mental illness the actions taken that day are unforgiveable. please don’t kick me mittens…

I for one came to EVE because of big battles and what not but i think ESO is a better fit for me.