So nerf active playstyles because nullsec ratters can’t get it together enough to rat in groups, in fleets and be ready to counter if they are dropped?
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Oh Sonya, counter drop just fine… this is from today
But trying to get enough in a group 23/7 is by sure easier than said done
So you want to nerf active playstyles because your alliance doesn’t have it together enough to protect people in your light timezones?
Good. That’s how it’s supposed to be. If you can’t organize 23/7 then perhaps you should just accept the idea that you can’t farm PvE content at maximum efficiency 23/7 in a PvP game?
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sitting idle in a system is not active play style
what do you kill a ship once per month? https://zkillboard.com/character/856024051/
But there are many other uses of a cloak that also get crippled by your ridiculous fuel ideas.
This isn’t my only character, I don’t care about killboards and don’t post my kills or losses unless I have to, and if you can’t address the argument without resorting to complaining about the person making it then it’s a sign your position is weak.
No, but an active hunter in a cloaked ship is active…and with fuel, timer, etc. his game just got nerfed and he isn’t the problem. It is like kicking your cat when the dog craps in the living room.
Wow…that’s…just lame.
Juse somebody hasn’t been as active as others or is into PvP doesn’t render their argument invalid. This is about as persuasive as saying a person is wrong regarding cloaks because he has curly hair.
You’re making me repeat myself, but “effort™” doesn’t justify access to broken mechanics. Thats why.
Risk is absolutely not independent of your actions. By no means I argued otherwise, so don’t polarize what I’m saying. But regardless of your actions, in a version of Eve with a healthy risk/reward balance, there should be a limit to how risk-free you have it in a space which is supposed to be risky. More concretely, game should be designed to you take 1-50 units of risk in hisec, 50-100 in lowsec, and 100-150 in nullsec. But in a balanced game, you should never have 10 units of risk (hisec level or risk) in nullsec. Thats what you have right now.
They should. But to a limit. You’re just polarizing my words and pulling them to the extreme. I by no means argue Goons should have the same level of risk with utter disorganized random dwellers in nullsec. I argue that there should be a minimum, and the current risk they are taking is below minimum.
My concrete proposals include making systems sustain less people and improving cyno inhibition. In those scenarios Goons will still be the best group with best protection if they are the most organized group which you advertise them to be. You just don’t want your farm machine to be nerfed in any way whatsoever even if it means more balance for the game.
It is game breaking. I argued why it is game breaking in the parts of my post which you delightfully ignored. It is game breaking because it is breaking the economy, and messing up meaningfulness of this game because there is no reason not to be a Goon as a capital nullsec farmer (miners or anom runners) with this huge gap of safety you can provide, abusing bad game mechanics. It is game breaking because there is no scenario a Rorqual pilot of yours with a brain (basically someone who doesn’t get himself inhibbed) dies. The best one can do is make him dock or move, but that’s not good enough because people won’t chase you and entosis your systems forever.
What broken mechanic? There is none here. If anything the problem is that the rewards are too high, so nerf anomalies, mining etc.
But that is the implication of what you are saying. If a group takes actions to reduce risk why should they not reap the rewards?
There is no “healthy risk/reward balance”. You have just admitted that risk is a function of actions–i.e. effort. So there is nothing here to be “balanced” except possibly the value of the space. If a highly organized group can exploit their space and it is “too much” then the solution is to nerf all space in terms of the potential rewards. If a group is less organized and cannot reduce their risk as much they should not be implicitly rewarded for being Bad™.
Depends, if that “risk free” comes with sufficient effort why is there a problem. If the other guys cannot organize themselves that is no them.
WTF are 1-50 units of risk? Risk is a subjective concept not an objective one. What you consider risky I may not. Further, you are ignoring, again, effort/actions. People in HS often take on absolutely massive amountts of risk, whereas the guy going from point A to point B in a NS region in a travel fit interceptor is taking very little risk.
You just seem utterly and horribly confused on what is risk. You can also increase your risk by your actions.
No, I am pointing out that you are making arbitrary judgments based on your own perceptions of risk and reward. If a group plays smart why should they not get the rewards for playing smart. If those rewards are too high, CCP should adjust the rewards and for everyone, not try an nerf the way the smart group is playing.
Seriously, you have a very perverse world view, IMO. You’d bail out people who take on too much risk, and punish those who are prudent and then sit there and wonder why everything went to Hell in a hand basket. It went to Hell in a hand basket, because that is where you sent the hand basket.
How do you determine this. This is like saying there should be a maximum level of fun, or maximum level of happiness.
WITF? You want there to be less people per system? You do realize that that means you are implicitly capping the number of people who can live in NS. Why would you want to do this?
If there is too much farming because an organized group is demonstrating a problem…nerf the rewards. You’ll get less of these rewards and maybe even less organization.
But you have to do this to everyone. Make all space less rewarding to organized game play. Now, if this sounds stupid to you…stop and consider your views then.
No, you have stated your own subjective views on what you think is the appropriate level of risk, that is that there should be some lower bound on how far risk can be reduced. I reject that in that if a group can find a way to do it better they should be allowed to receive better rewards.
First off, what do you base this off of? The economy is fine.
And as for everyone wanting to be a goon…seems to me that there are far more players who are not in Goons or in the Goons coalition than are in it.
So…playing smart is to be penalized? We got that. You think that there should be a limit on benefits of playing smart and prudent. It makes you look kind of kooky, but okay we get that.
They sure did up north. 
Oh nooooooooooooooooos what ever will we do… Wait isn’t ratting in nulsec supposed to be hard?
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Those advocating fuel or module burnout:
As a WH player why should I have to use precious cargo space for fuel, or return to home every so often and repair a module? Corp members often spend hours exploring, hunting, scanning chains etc.
What about daytrippers? Now they have to carry more fuel of some kind too?
No active playstyle should be nerfed because of other players psychology.
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nothing is breaking… its working as intended.
do you really have 0 idea the amount of work that goes into building and maintaining a strong alliance?
Sitting idle in a system is a non-issue, given you can’t hurt anyone if you aren’t at your keyboard. The dozens of other playstyles that use cloaks and would be eliminated with fuel, however, are an issue.
Why do you want to nerf active playstyles because your alliance can’t recruit in what’s currently off timezones?
It’s almost like we’ve had 40 more replies to this thread and come to the conclusion cloaks are still working fine. I don’t think anything is going to be changed and I’m grateful for that, what a worthless swing of the nerf-hammer.
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Here’s my counter offer:
If you are afk ratting in a carrier or mothership or any other capital boat, you are required to use 5000 strontium per hour. Once you are in an anomaly, you cannot warp our or use a cyno module for one hour.
Using the network sensor array makes you immobile for 10 minutes. You cannot be tethered, dock or receive logi of any kind.
That will decrease bot armies in the MAO (Multiple Account Online game) ratting infinite amounts of isk, while driving price tags up to a level where nobody but them can compete anymore.
If one covert ops pilot is enough to keep you from ratting, mission accomplished. Working as intended.
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This conversation is about nulsec, take your enormous balls back to WH space we’re still working on removing local out here 
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This is what happens when baby won’t sleep in his cot 
My point was that it’s not only AFK cloakers who use cloaks. Messing with the module because of it’s psychological effect on players would be pretty stupid in my opinion.
What happens? You take his balls back to WH space…?
I understood your point entirely my good man and a good point it was.
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