Actually, it isn’t. EVE functions, by design, as a pressure vat containing a soup of human behaviour. In all its aspects.
By design this includes isolationism just as it does other facets. The crux is that little word “all”. Keyword, emergent dynamic. As a practical / simple example, if people did not also bring their ingrained or internalised behavioural reflexes of (timed, periodic or other) isolationism, others would not have prey, or room to undermine, subvert, hijack or otherwise find an angle of use on what is just another facet of someone else’s behavioural options.
It is perhaps an idea to read up on CCP’s communications over a decade and a half on these matters
Even if EVE were a PVP game (this is an aspect of it, but keep in mind it is actually a variable as well as a mechanism of functionality - which is subtly different) consider something simple. Wolves need sheep. They might fight other wolves, but they need to eat, among other things.
Actually, it is, and you’re arguing with the devs to say EVE isn’t a PVP game. It’s a simple fact, every single aspect of EVE is PVP, and absolutely nothing you do in this game, no matter how ‘isolated’ you think you are, has an effect on someone else. Even that little bit of isk you just made from a mission - every last isk you generate out of thin air lowers the value of all isk in the game. You don’t get to play without interaction of some form or another.
You can argue this point when you’ve played for more than five minutes yourself instead of pretending that you’re actually up to date on a decade and a half of CCP communications, not a one of which suggest it is anything other than a PVP sandbox game. Believe it or not, those two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
Actually, no. I’m agreeing with CCP that EVE Online is not a PVP or PVE game, but something that is more than a mere game. As I said, you might want to first read up on 15+ years of studies, publications, interviews and more of that before you go through a door like this.
What you are trying to do, is simply an attempt to apply arbitrary labels based on a simplification of observation. That is fine, you can do that, but do not expect it to be accurate, after all it simplifies and thus the chosen perspective has selective roots in observation, not complete observation.
Try defining PVP, it is not simple or mere killing. It’s behavioural traits and mechanisms, part of an array of traits and mechanisms, which combined provide the foundation elements that enable EVE Online to function.
As a practical example, I like it when people opt for isolation or separation. You can subtly or less so steer them in desired directions, you can prey on them for easy kills, you can introduce variables that make them move in or away from a location, it’s all a matter of perspective. It doesn’t matter whether you approach this as a complex challenge, or a stupid simply situational case. The behaviour you are writing off, is part of functional requirements on a great many levels.
I know what PVP is, and I’m telling you, it’s a PVP game. PVP = player vs player, a conflict between two or more players. Everything in this game is conflict between players. Mining, trading, even missioning my proxy of generating loot and isk. You’re not agreeing with CCP by saying it’s not a PVP game. To say something like that is admitting your ignorance of what CCP has said, both in the past and the present. One need not look far to see CCP Falcon’s own monologues on the matter. Go and argue the point with him.
The fact is, and this is a fact, your denial notwithstanding, that if you don’t want to interact with people, then you shouldn’t log in. All those things you said about EVE are true, except to say that it’s not a PVP game. It is, and it’s a sociopolitical dynamic that rivals reality, and it’s a personal adventure. It’s all of those things, none of which contradict the FACT that it is a PVP game.
PvP games are most often described as a “player killing” game, which EVE is. From the EVE Online FAQ:
And, yes, CCP likes to hide this fact a little, because EVE is a very complex PvP game and has come a long way from classic PvP games.
To say EVE isn’t a PvP game is a bit backwards in my opinion. It’s better to say that CCP has redefined what a PvP game can be. EVE Online is a modern PvP game.
To say that EVE is strictly a PvP game is a bit restricted. It’s better to say that CCP has enabled every aspect of behaviour from every angle to constitute the game environment. EVE Online is a human game.
Think of it as a perception problem, much like Alpha’s who show up in New Eden with expectations on there being a correlation between activity and experience, in the sense of the holy XP. Much along the same lines, those who (like me once) arrive with the expectation that there is nothing but PvP end up with open expectations, and often frustration.
The topic was the isolationistic behaviour of some, whether that is in general, or at this or that moment in time or location. His case was that this has no part of the game. I’m saying it’s just another part of it. One which actually enables quite a few other parts.
I never, not once, said it has no part in the game. I fly mostly solo myself. I said, and I suggest you pay attention this time, that people expecting to not experience interaction, or PVP, should not log on. Just because the game allows isolation doesn’t mean you’ll get it.
If you’re talking about your posts above, I’ve read them all. You’ve yet to explain why the game needs ‘isolationists’ who don’t want to interact in a game that’s driven entirely by player interaction.
No, it’s the opposite. To allow others to believe it may be anything else is exactly why some have a problem with the game.
And even the classic PvP games have their problems of being imbalanced, simple-minded and sometimes plain boring. It’s often because these have been reduced soley to the player killing aspect, that it has allowed so called PvE games to take over all else.
PvP games however have always included PvE. Even if it’s a wall one hides behind or one picks up ammo from the ground are these environmental objects and it forces players to interact with them.
EVE has merely corrected the position of PvP games as being player killing games with a much richer environment.
You seem stuck on the idea that because person X says 1, whatever person Y says has to say 0.
The environment needs them because it is a pressure vat of human behaviour. If you only have one type of behaviour, you might have a game, but it would be a different one.
I’m just pointing out that EVE is more than just that. I’m also pointing out that it doesn’t matter if people want to or expect to be left alone. Everyone’s connected anyway, whether they like it or not. But the spectrum of choices replicates what you have in real life, just within a game setting. Allowing for engaging on and within that spectrum, including against what you don’t like.
The core concepts here are emergent gameplay, immersive gameplay, metagaming and virtual economics. Each of those has dependancies.
You really think CCP don’t know this and factor it in? Heck, it’s been a topic at roundtables during fanfest for years. CCP knows it and accepts it because they realise that they will always need of influx of different behavioural perspectives regardless of those are in tune with perceived realities or not.
As Oveur once said, “EVE needs sheep”. Or as Torfi once said, “EVE needs its mice”.
As for CCP not posting here, but elsewhere, I’d say that’s a different topic right?
That is odd, I didn’t say conflict wasn’t part of it, on the contrary. It’s designed so all the little molecules in the soup rub against each other causing friction and raising temperatures …
But no sheep in EVE? Really? You’d be surprised … I thought the stumbling was over people who just want to graze and be left alone
No. In fact when people complain about the game on the forum are they merely trying to appeal to the highest power in the game - the game maker - in order to get their issues solved. Only the game maker doesn’t care and looks away, which surprisingly renders the game maker as a sheep. You’ll find other game makers and their game masters to be much more authoritative, restrictive and dominant in regards to what goes on in their games.
So before you continue to think of yourself as a lion, know that your Gods are sheep, and only because of them can you be the lion you want to be.
You’re projecting. That serves no point here, it isn’t relevant either.
Establishing CCP as sheep, by all means, but I’d say that if CCP were to be an animal … let’s not forget that they’re not in the zoo and pretty damn smart
