An Idea

(Lutian) #1

So currently mining is a little boring, in my opinion anyways. There is a push towards mining wars or miner wars, or whatever you want to call it. Earlier I read a post Upgradeable personal WH and had an idea.

In a way this is a way to incorporate ninja mining into everyday mining and make it a little more exciting, hopefully.

This assumes that CCP has a way to easily generate solar systems full of resources, even perhaps small constellations in very little time, like a random dungeon simulator.

Okay so the idea is that corporations can purchase and somehow use a “Random Wormhole Generator” but the catch is that two must be used in order to generate a random wormhole. Once the WH is open it has a certain frequency that only allows certain types of ships, and in the beginning it is limited too ships that are specifically non-pvp based, essentially resource gathering. Now I had an idea, if it were possible, to make all objects in space scannable, meaning that everything in system is a cosmic signature and must be scanned down by each team before the object can be warped too, even the sun. Then the other ships would be able to move around system and collect the resources from each anomaly scanned down. So miners from opposing teams could end up at the same mining resource, without much to do but attempt to mine more than your opponent, before the “Random Wormhole Generator” recalibrates to allow ships with guns into the WH.

I don’t know much about moon mining, but it seems a little tedious and not very interactive. What if CCP created a mining vessel designed to destroy moons in order to turn them into small mining nodes like they are doing with the Upwell thing. Then smaller ships can fly in and begin mining the rocks.

So before all this I would like to add that each side is limited to the number of ships they can bring in with them to accomplish the task at hand. Obviously based on the stability of the WH, which could be drastically limited to allow only a certain number of ships, perhaps 10-20 depending on size of ship, obviously. So it won’t be as if a large corporation can just pile all 300 members into a hole and horde all the stuff. Also, there won’t be a limitation on how many a corp can do, so if one corp wants to run 3 RWG at the same time, with a team of 30 ventures and 30 crows, then that is what will happen. Since it takes two RWG owned by different corporations in order to create a single WH system. The wait time for two corporations to fire up each RWG will be just like the Random Dungeon Finder function in other games. This is of course all very hypothetical, of course. Now onto the gun ships.

Lets say the re-calibration time for the RWG is 2 hours.

In the first two hours the resource gatherers are doing there thing, while the re-calibrator is…well, re-calibrating. In this time the pvp’rs are gathering their team to go in and destroy the other teams fleet and possibly steal there loot as well. So now it becomes a game of protecting and destroying the opposing teams pieces. The thing is that any ship in the WH can jump back to the original system it came from at any point, but once it does it may never return. So once the gun ships are allowed in you can simply warp your resource gatherers out of system and all is good. But the winner gets to stay in the WH until all the resources are mined, or a certain time has elapsed. At which point the only way back is self-destruct. So lets say a team is able to drive out the opposing forces they then have another 2 hours in the hole alone with whatever ships they have left before their hole back collapses due too it’s manufactured stability.

It would almost be like a random resource grab with pvp mixed in for good fun.

(Nevyn Auscent) #2

Or it gets gamed by 2 corps working together who during that time have risk free farming that no-one else can interfere with.
EVE doesn’t do instances.

(Arcanith Lionheart) #3

Mining is not meant to be “boring”, it is fun, cause in definition it means enjoyment, and people enjoy mining, just like how some do with Hauling, because both can be a Relaxing experience.

As for the idea you gave, won’t happen. You are applying these weird timers and restrictions in a sandbox game as well as something that is just weird, why would anyone want to risk miners in these things. If anything what will happen is the corps will just say “Hey, lets just get the ore and be risk free, deal?”

If it’s “fun” with this sort of adrenaline you seek when mining, go low sec or in some random WH to huff gas and watch PvPers go after you. there is an actual sense of danger and rush when you press the D-scan to see if anyone is approaching or trying to scan you down with combat probes.

(Lutian) #4

It would be a Venture haven, now that I think about it.

They could create new classes of battle miners.

Small attack groups could warp in and attack other miners to steal the booty. You could prohibit warp disruption modules on some terms of spatial signature flux interfering with the artificial temporal vortex creating an artificial WH in real space, for some reason the warp disruption generator creates a signal identical to the signal created by the RWG. Which is not the same signal “natural” WH’s give off. Thus the reason for the RWG’s limited ship capacity.

A note from early testing of the RWG: Since early testing of new “scientific” endeavors are majorly funded by governments, and specifically military organizations, the first pilots in these artificial RWG were of course young test pilots. Naturally flying around in unknown space test pilots can get bored not seeing anything to shoot at, so they horse around and one of the pilots warp disrupted his co-pilot, causing the WH to collapse on itself with the pilots inside.

(Arcanith Lionheart) #5

Battle miners? That’s called an Orca

Long video I know, but this guy is damn good. I only wish I could understand him even during his live streams.

And again, silly idea, and prohibiting warp disruption modules also make no sense, because by doing so you completely remove any risk there is by letting the ships just warp away the very second something enters d-scan.

(Lukett MyDabb) #6

The post you pulled this idea from was rather crap. you turned crap into a Michelangelo style statue, but yet, it’s still a well made statue made from crap. The whole failing point of his idea is that it creates a new world, he said the generator would cost keepstar level, whereas you state this generator would have plenty of owners.

They each meet the same problem: once everyone has them, and everyone uses them, the server blazes like Snoop Dogg because both the ideas center around the idea of making brand new systems. Don’t start with limiting the use either, because we really don’t need active space restrictions like the Palatine, because once is enough.

(Lutian) #7

And what is wrong with blazing like Snoop Dogg? What better way to create new hardware to run this game on?

The generators would themselves have a cost, but what the cost would be would depend on the reward gained from the actual entering of the hole. I am sure there is an isk per hour formula that would easily determine this.

But essentially it would be a key for corporations to enter into to Random WH’s. Perhaps the cost of the device itself isn’t costly, but the fuel used to run one is where the cost comes in.

Even better, One corp can have only a single RWG. Fuel can be gathered in all space, but can be harvested in larger quantities within the holes themselves. The more fuel you have the more times you can run your RWG. So I guess limiting each corp to a single instance at any given time. It could essentially be something you would setup in a POS or deployed in space.

It is just an idea in an attempt to create content.

Change is a good thing.

(Scipio Artelius) #8

So you basically want a risk free arena generator?

No thanks. If it is risk free, it also has to be value free. Effectively an empty wormhole that you can fly around in and admire the graphics, but gather nothing of any worth at all.

Also, that catch is not a catch at all. If you can use 1, you can use 2…or 10, or 20. ISK is not a barrier as there are plenty of wealthy players, corps, alliances and coalitions.

(yellow parasol) #9

Mining is not meant to be fun either, though dare i say it really is meant to be boring. anyhow, it’s very likely meant to be satisfying. That’s why it’s an afk activity, providing low income at actually low risk. it is literally the thing people do in the game, when they do something else. it only gets interesting, when you use several accounts. You’re mistaking the fun of doing something else as the activity itself, which is a pretty common mistake to make.

Relevant read: Fun vs Satisfaction

(yellow parasol) #10
  1. it creates isolation
  2. Change for sake of change is stupid, especially when you don’t care about anything but your wantsies.

(Lutian) #11

Actually it is a WH full of resources. Two Corporations fight over a Randomly Generated Wormhole full of resources. The risk is obviously loss of ships, loss of potential resources, loss of fuel to run the RWG.

(Arcanith Lionheart) #12

And like previously mentioned nothing is keeping the Corps from making a deal of not fighting at all.
Let’s suppose they do not agree then, you even said that no warp disrupters would be allowed in there so ships can just run away, there is No Risk because the moment something enters D-scan they’re all gone.

This can very easily be exploited by the big corps and alliances as well, because not only they can buy a lot of these RWGs but they will obviously make corps outside of the alliance to use these RWGs and “Oh look, we ended up with the corps we wanted, time to mine non stop”

(Keno Skir) #13

Your idea only removes content, by allowing resource gathering to be risk free.

What about when Somalia changed into a war torn famine struck dust bowl for all those years? Was that good because it was change?

No. Only good changes are good and this does not apply to your idea, catchy slogan or otherwise.

(Lutian) #14

Okay, since warp disruptions will be prohibited, then d-scan would also be affected since, while technically speaking there is no true direction in space, the fact that an artificial WH has been artificially created in real space creates an anti-polorizing affect, thus rendering the directional scan of a ships navigational computer. Essentially the “ping” that is sent out by the ships sensor is internally pinged on itself, which essentially cancels out the ping itself, and causes the oddest of sounds, most would would say it sounded like “A drop of water of with a crystal chime.”

(Arcanith Lionheart) #15

I am fairly certain if we ever get the technology to make wormholes we can come up with tech to avoid said disruptions and shenanigans

Also, about the exploitable part by big corps, you got any idea to try and say against it yet?

(Scipio Artelius) #16

Never going to happen in a risk free environment.

You want ISK making/resource gathering opportunities, then there also needs to be risk that someone else will kill you.

You can’t have one without the other.

(Lutian) #17

As far as the big corps go, isn’t that kinds how it is currently?

See, CCP really only cares about attracting new players. Yes, keeping old players happy is a priority, but more money incoming from the outside world means more money to expand Eve with. They already have a an excellent platform that allows for a lot of possibilities.

(Arcanith Lionheart) #18

What does that even mean? How does making the big rich corps richer attract new players with one flawed mechanic that was intended to bring fights to the table but in reality is abused by the corps that actually work together? Money from the outside world?

(Lutian) #19

I am sure there can be a really good reason created for wanting to kill the opposing team to have the hole all for yourself. So once the idea that the other team will shoot you then there is almost certainly risk.

(Arcanith Lionheart) #20

You still don’t get it, people will abuse the crap out of this like I keep trying to explain to you

Corp A will split and form Corp B
They both have enough money to form several of these wormholes
Coincidentally they try and time it so they are guaranteed the same wormhole area
Corp A and Corp B will therefor come up with a solution to mine safely and without worries
Heavy isk for no Risk

Stop being stubborn and think for a bit, no amount of pvp you try to implement, as weird as it is, will make the idea any more doable, it is flawed just for the fact the big and the rich can be safe and more rich. PvP is something player made, not through tools CCP comes up with, having Forced PvP breaks the entire point of a sandbox. If people fight for things it is because the space is vast and they still want more, not because they are pitched in a place that could altogether not do it’s main purpose.