At the cost of being savagely assaulted with a newspaper by Elsebeth, I’m going to be utterly frank: All I’m hearing from this is more credence to Floseswin being a bloodbath for bloodbath’s sake rather than any moral or just reason. Which is frankly despicable given how frequent “our people” is taut as the reason for the Ushra’khan doing anything. If you want to fight tooth and nail and never compromise because it looks like surrender, that’s fine. Don’t say you do it for the Minmatar of Floseswin. The best option for the people is a ceasefire. The best option for Ushra’khan is a prolonged war in spite of them.
And Nomistrav finally gets to the crux of U’K
And, to be fair to U’K, most (95%) of anyone else involved in this ghastly charade as well as the one happening in Black Rise.
I still find it interesting that we have so many Minmatar that push the blame for all of this on Ushra’Khan and claim that it is our bloodlust that has caused all of this.
We did not invade planets nor did we force anyone to do it. What we did was to fight the corruption that had settled within all the militias and had costed countless lifes over the years.
From there it was the Empire that escalated. Floseswin wasn´t handed to the slavers. It was in their hands for half a year and most of the people complaining here did nothing to change that before the invasion and little when it was in progress. And before Else jumps on the petty train again: Yes some did their best…
In essence most people didn´t care until something unthinkable happend and then rather pointed fingers then do something themselves. But this is old news I guess.
As for why we oppose a ceasefire in Floseswin is that we do actually care for our people and as sad as that is the Matari on Floseswin are just a small part of our people and if we let the slavers get away with this then we open way more up for similar attacks. Unhappy with trade conditions? lets take a planet hostage. Worked great last time so why not repeat it. I´d rather seen the slavers withdraw instead of landing even more troops in the short period of time they had and see the end of the bloodshed that is Floseswin. Our losses in the fights for the systems have been significant and we tire as well as I imagine our counterparts do. I could do without that for sure but how it ends is of utmost importance. So we fight on.
If you just want it to end we can stop the fighting and if we take the war so far as an indicator the slavers will be in full control of the planet within a week. No more fights. Just slavery for everyone and more blame on us I guess. That and more invasions elsewhere.
Many here still seem to misjudge the Empire. Its not the cultivated and polite people you meet at your fancy parties that despise slavery and are so liberal and that want peace and prosperity for everyone in the cluster. Its religious fanatics and slavers that rule and that are enabled by some of those very liberal Amarr that you are on such good terms with to continue their war against the Matari. Good words and noble ideas will not stop them. Only blood will. Theirs and ours.
Nobody has said that.
In essence, before Floseswin it was considered that taking slaves from the planets in the warzone was against the rules the Empires had set between themselves and there was no proof of such things happening before. And I can tell just about everyone present here in this thread didn’t just point fingers, they tried to pre-emptively do something while you, Harkon, just laughed us off.
I remember we were called off on taking a system because of your treaty - that none of us had signed - but enough people were afraid of you that when one of yours said “no”, enough people left that taking the hub was impossible.
You’re so full of ■■■■ trying to spin this as “woe us who always get spat on despite doing our best.” No, this time I distinctly recall you did not do your best, you worked actively against the fortification of Floseswin for a month before the forces actually landed, despite what people told you.
This is old news, or should be.
But let me reiterate, it is not U’K that is at blame for the situation. But don’t come lying to my face something you yourself should know to be untrue.
Its funny that you accuse me of spinning things here…
For starters this was never a laughing matter for me and while I might laugh you and your opinion off at this point I surely didn´t do any such thing when this all started and if you can proof otherwise go ahead.
As for us working actively against the fortification: Sure. It wasn´t us setting up a citadel in orbit and a blockade as well as taking control of the customs office and sending down hundreds of thousands of troops. I guess that was you then?
We also didn´t force anyone to follow up on our word. We did not threaten nor attack any militia member over it. So who ever felt afraid was either just stupid or was looking for an excuse for their inability.
“I am saying that this system in the hands of the amarr militia is part of our current operations. I am also saying that we will not make any attempts to retake it.” -You, in the moot of 26.10.YC121
Normally I would be loathe to bring this up but you did ask.
This was nearly a full month before Sarum forces started their landings, and mere days after they declared their intent to do so. Saying now that you were there for them from the start sure does smell like spinning the situation to me. It took the U’K also nearly a month after the assault started to break their oath with the slaver-aligned forces in the warzone and join the rest of us for capturing Floseswin.
And lo and behold, if I’m reading this right, the system was taken in TWO DAYS after you declared U’K to join the effort. Which makes your other statement in said moot, that “you currently have no way of taking the system”, sound dubious at best. You had power, you just refused to wield it.
If had an alliance with your numbers and finances at my disposal, it would have been. But I did what I could, as did many others, just there wasn’t enough of us.
I have taken note that you love calling people with more integrity in their little finger than you have in your entire body as “stupid, useless, appeasers,” etc. Sure you’re not projecting your own insecurities here? You, least of all people have the right to disparage those pilots.
TL;DR: Thank you for your hard work once you finally cared to join in, but also ■■■■ you and the horse you rode in on.
It truly baffles and pains me that the Minmatar capsuleers spend more time bickering and placing blame among themselves than the Slaver swines who are the sole reason that the Eugidi constellation is on fire. Their thirst for new thralls, Sarum’s lust to flex his power, the 24th’s fanatical pilots… They are the only people us Matari supporters should be blaming.
Yes, we abstained from immediately going back on our word when the invasion was announced, but that does not see us in the blame spotlight for as much as many would argue. While we have contributed greatly to the defense of Floseswin, us and our fellow Matari capsuleers could not have done anything to prevent a full scale planetary invasion, no matter how hard we tried. The only ones who could have prevented that are the corrupt bastards at CONCORD and the Republic, neither of whom done anything to even try and prevent the invasion going ahead. You blame us for being late to the party? Where was the Republic?! It was only after many call outs from impatient capsuleers and struggling warriors that the Republic finally deployed to Floseswin IV - and even then they have yet to show any real prowess in the skies above, that are allegedly important for Amarrian logistics…
End the blame game and keep fighting, we’re all frustrated as I shamefully let loose earlier, we’re all angry and we all want this to be over and our people to be safe again.
The Bloody Fist has come for our people and we will not be leaving until this is over…
And to any supporters of House Sarum’s invasion who think we care to hear your opinion on this matter any longer, I quote Teinyhr:
Maybe if you don’t want that to happen you should not start it?
Oh drop it, Elsebeth.
Why? So that you can talk whatever and then get all indignant about “bickering” if someone answers?
I’m sorry to have triggered you so heavily, Else. As said, it was pent up frustration in me that drove to write such things that I’ve since went back on and apologised for twice now. If you can’t let it go, then once again, I’m sorry, but I’m going to move on from it now and continue to work on the big problem at hand, rather than petty ones.
But I find it interesting that you brought this out from the moot into the IGS for a cheap gotcha moment that failed. The fact that you didn´t even consider to bring this up in private because you loathe it sooo much shows that you are just here for the meantioned gotcha and petty points as well as attention. So I´ll ignore you from here on as much as you keep ignoring everything that goes against your little narrative.
Not prevent it, no. But maybe given the Republic forces more time and logistics capacity to prepare and fortify. Impossible to know afterwards, though.
I will cry myself to sleep tonight. Cherry picking poorly worded sentences isn’t gotcha momenting either, I’m sure?
The Republic deployed after we eventually did anyway. So I doubt that. They also could have spared a detachment from it’s argosy I highly imagine, everyone has been fighting off the Triglav’s, yet still maintaining other campaigns and naval goals, I feel it’s grasping at straws to use as an excuse for the Republics late-coming. A factor non-the-less I guess.
You should know more than me that this is what the IGS is all about. As well as the fact that anyone who claims this of others is largely a hypocrite themselves. Most rebuttals I see on this forum revolve around exactly this…
I’ve done it too, sure.
They landed as soon as there was space superiority.
You are asking the wrong question, Ferra. It’s not “Where is the Republic?” To phrase it that way, you insult the brave men and women dying on the damned mudball every day, at far greater personal risk than your immortal self faces in space.
What you mean to ask is where is the Fleet.
Lucky for us, the right questions are now asked also in the Tribal Council.
My apologies for people not reading between the lines I thought were obvious, yes, I mean the fleet… I have always meant the fleet. I am well aware of our people fighting down on the damned mudball.
Why should she? You said it in public, you made your demand that she ‘proof otherwise’ in public… seems to me like you invited her to discuss the matter in public, no? If you didn’t want to discuss it in public, maybe don’t say things like “if you can proof otherwise go ahead”?
I mean, just sayin’, you did literally ask for it.