Blurred OOC Line

Continuing the discussion from I have been elevated into new heights:

Since we’re getting more on the topic of things being IC or OOC, I think we’re best moving it to OOC completely.

Roland, I think what your saying has merit. In this case, the reason “these guys” are getting a hard time is because they have made In Character decisions, and then wanted us to ignore those and treat them as Out Of Character because of the consequences. Kithrus knows he did offer PIE personal to Sansha as an In Character quip, one that was publicly outed In Character. Graelyn did make his only response to an official conversation with PIE his “please imagine my prose” eve mail.
Asking us to pretend that these conversations aren’t real anymore because they put them in a bad light is being disingenuous.

We do want and need more “bad guys” and “blurry lines” in the IC world. But when people try to pull the “That actually never happened In Character” line whenever their actions are brought out, it makes it very difficult to take anything seriously.


Except I was there when half of this stuff went on as they were speaking to me as well not in character. It was VERY plainly put forth to me that they’d like to invite folks who have had a bad rap into a group to try interacting.

IC or not, I’m pointing out that IRL they’re taking a lot of unnecessary abuse for trying something out which a fair few of us appreciate. I play EVE and do lowsec piracy and Nullsec crap and mess around with Spectre. I can’t RP in any of those groups that actually get to take part in the events because I don’t play well with CVA.

Oh well. Guess that means I get pushed off.

But here are these guys who and I will say this with all apologies IRL to players of Kithrus and Graelyn may not be tactical geniuses but their hearts were in the right place. They wanted to be in the events and offer a place to other folks as well. And that spoke to me. Maybe their execution didn’t quite navigate as cleanly as it could have been. But here we are.

So I pitched the merc angle for my group, it’s not unlike the Khanid to be mercantile in nature from what I remember, It’s not a horrible idea that since they weren’t receiving much in the way of help from the other amarr RP groups they’d go that route. And it burns me up because frankly we went comms silent for about a month. Trying our best to just lay low and let the ■■■■ die and just build up a decent group of newer guys who might be interested in joining in all this.

Then Vaari who is honestly one of the nicest guys I’ve run across out of character is just wanting to say thanks in character for being given a chance and the thread is hijacked by the characters being jerks

and this crap. Jesus man he misspelled a word. WTF This is posturing and pitiful at that.

This isn’t Role playing this is being a pedant.

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Heaven forbid someone posts off their cellphone.

He literally told me to get a dictionary for the word. Again, being pedantic and then missing details is going to get ribbed.

I can understand the desire to be involved and being cut out because of character choices. I can’t speak to anyone giving them abuse IRL, I was unaware of that and it’s ■■■■■■■■ that shouldn’t be happening.

My point remains, that only interacting with others through thinly veiled OOC messages deliberately in the place of IC conversation, and asking them at the time to imagine it’s in character, then later calling it out of character, is not reasonable. It is why many people won’t role play with some players anymore, because they moving the playing field with “now imagine this happened. But please pretend I never said that. Stop bringing up the things I said!”

Giving everyone the middle finger on your way out and trash talking them, then being upset that they respond unkindly is going to make one’s role play life uncomfortable.

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Thats fine man you do you.

The long and short of this whole thing is I’m another guy that this crap has pushed out of even wanting to be a part of this community.

Kithris has stated to me before that he isn’t the king of responding to things on the fly that well In character, so sometimes he does put his foot in his mouth, maybe cut the guy some slack?


Look, PIE admiralty as Near as I can tell been taking this whole AM crisis for lack a better word as Us telling you, you suck, get good ooc.

This is not the case we want you to do what you do, be good at it go forth. you aren’t going to change so I figured 'heck, let’s get AM to do what AM always did and back amarr bloc play."

Since then I been getting IC to hate far over the top whats due and conversations handed to me of PIE and SFRIM saying things like “Kithrus is taking AM off the rails” “You should find a way to steal AM from Kithrus”. All while chanting IC “Kithrus is incompetent.”

So I’ve reached the point I’m going to play Kithrus like the Amarr bloc isn’t a thing and if it continues just play EvE and thanks you all (non AM and non AM friends) to forget we exist.

We just had a 7-hour Diplo with @Kyle_Saltz the other day where @Graelyn got mad at him(kyle) insisting we were betraying Provi that Graelyn shouted and I quote “would you feel better if AM just wasn’t an RP alliance? Cause we can do that.”

We have IC reasons for what we do and we took more than a few of you aside before AM got rolling to warn you ahead of time what’s planned so you could form better IC reactions. In the spirit of OOC for IC collaborations of course.

As mentioned I’ve been spit on from every angle which wouldn’t be a problem if it stays IC but this?

■■■■ this.

Honestly kinda surprised you guys didn’t go down some “were trying to convert them” angle. It wouldn’t exactly be a stretch, offer them Matari slaves or pows. It probably would have prevented half of this bull****. I honestly do hope this ends well and you guys stick around. Good enemies are harder to come by then friends, at least for me.


Well kinda but it was more “Behave, no bloodletting, Sansha TCMCing or whatever you do while in AM. If you happen to want to read the scripture we are happy to show you.”

Ooc communication issue maybe (pretty sure at this point obviously)? I’m sorry but even that doesn’t seem exactly horrible ic wise. I can understand where if they found out when my character did (and laughed) it would have major blowback.

Personal opinion.

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People doing OOC back-staging and suggesting anyone pulls the rug out from you is not fair. I was not aware that was going on, and would not support it.
If people were doing that IC, then I don’t have an OOC opinion on it.

Consider ALL the IC hate from Ascentior as IC hate. You are housing heretics, as far as he’s concerned that is heresy.
IC Ascentior believes you absolutely are taking AM off the rails. The choice to accept heretics into loyalist organisations has ALWAYS drawn heat from PIE. Adding the “we’re doing it because you guys are too weak and you need us” line to it just makes it impossible to give you the benefit of doubt.

The only OOC issues I have are that I’ve been asked twice to OOC compromise IC information, and now you’ve outright dismissed my attempts to do just that.
First, was the leak. You wanted us to ignore IC comments (you admitted they were made IC) that you would hand over PIE personnel to Sansha. You asked me to ignore the specific line, but to take the overall message that your were openly trying to recruit sansha as truth. I told you that I would do what I can, and tell everyone in PIE that I suggest they do the same.
The second was where Graelyn replied to the IC conversation with PIE with his long list of points with specific instructions that we should imagine the wording around it, but that was “the gist”.
Now when I tried to deal with those issues you just throw “That’s not IC” at me?
I honestly don’t know how you want us to move ahead if you’re going to keep pulling your actions and comments off the IC table.

Not rightly sure what this is exactly about, but using OOC info to press someone in IC interactions is seriously not cool, if that’s what has happened. And OOC harassment over any issue should never be accepted and I’m truly sorry and angry if that has happened.

However, and pardon me if I understood wrong, but it’s always held true in every RPG I’ve played that if you choose to RP an “evil” faction/character, you should accept that it will be hard because people can not be expected to be kind to such a character and that they can and probably will be ostracized IC. In that case you should perhaps maintain OOC relations more diligently, as has already been mentioned.

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Et tu Kithrus?

I’ve not seen very many or even any people suggesting that the core intention of Aegis Militia (recruit bad guys to fight for the Empire) is somehow ‘bad’ or ‘not allowed’ roleplay. Speaking as someone who was a member of the last outfit to make a name for themselves doing just that (eh Roland?), it can be very fulfilling and interesting roleplay for both sides.

However the bit I want to focus on is “IC or not”. If AM are receiving IC abuse for their IC actions, from characters who it makes perfect sense to react in that fashion, I don’t think there’s really grounds to complain. That’s just what happens when you choose to play “the bad guys”.

Separately, where I am seeing the most complaints and disagreement is over various members of AM backtracking on whether or not conversations held are IC or OOC, after the fact.

If you engage a roleplayer in conversation and do not make it extremely clear from the outset that you are speaking OOC, you cannot be upset if they take your words as IC.

If you want to have an OOC conversation you need to make it clear right from the start that that is what’s happening. You cannot go back later and say “By the way that whole thing was OOC” without being extremely unfair to the person you were talking to.

If you establish a reputation as someone who does this kind of backtracking, people will stop wanting to interact with you.


I’m not certain who insists that anyone in this group wished to RP a defacto bad guy. It was always my assertion that characters we’re capable of determining their own morality I greatly appreciate the fact that now I no longer have to make any choices for my own writing and instead I can rely on prescribed interpretations telling me why people have never even actually talked to in game get to run.

But I got a better method of making sure my intentions aren’t misread. I can just ignore the whole affair.
This was supposed to be something I did for fun and it’s since ceased feeling as such.

Which is fine but let me give you an example of something.

When AM declared we were going to recruit heritics what could have happened at say a event is AM guests could have been limited to the Amarr members. People talk and gossip and interact. Things happen, questions are asked, accusations made. People are snubbed, jokes are had.

I prompt ooc conversation before RP because as odd as it sounds at first you aren’t your character. The EvE universe is so technilogically alien, the culture so out of our RL selves it pays to take a moment and ask “is this Amarr reaction?”
I had an ooc conversation with you to help each of us prime a better IC conversation. A conversation that never happened. You never rang me up after or took me aside and ever attempt I made to catch you ic resulted in cold dismissal.

While that’s IC to a point this is an RPG, you cant role play alone. I understand IC hate and being frozen out as @Aldrith_Shutaq put it but actively avoiding rp and Then piling on ooc…

No not cool.

See above, besides after Evi’s stunt I have 0 intention to message someone IC without priming it first. Not because I can’t handle consequences like so many chirp at me but because I can’t seem to have a friendly casual conversation with anyone.

You want to deal with this IC for the record come talk to me.

Don’t even.

Which after Evi I have done but too little effect apparently. People seem to think I’m implying “pretend we had a talk but hand wave the details”. Instead of “these are my points, see you at the next event or forum so you can formulate accordingly.”

I have just recently joined AM, and it would seem to me that the heart of this matter is that there is a communication disconnect. People are operating under different assumptions, and that is causing this confusion. The more we get into details and “no you!” type of discussion, the further we get from the core of the problem.

Now admittedly, I only have one side of the difference from a direct source, and my understanding of the other side is through what I have read on the forums and other second hand sources, but that said, may I recommend a soft reset to clear up each positions points, and clarify what is OOC and IC?

The point of all this is to have fun, so lets clear things up and get back doing just that.


I don’t know a lot of peculiarities that happen between PIE and AM, and I won’t get on either side, I’ll just speak from my experience and my point of view of OOC/IC problems.

For me, everything that happens in game is IC, every conversation by default is IC - unless it was openly stated otherwise, bracketed or it was obvious RP discussion. Such OOC/IC blur happened to me once. One person, whom I won’t be naming here, and will refer to him as “T” was discussing with me a result of a RP scene. I am more of an improviser type, and he wanted a definite result, we were discussing how possible things could be achieved. My interest was in “gaining equal winning chance”, his - probably winning itself. One of my offers included possibility of convincing character “L” to lower gravity in the station in hope that will make chances of both character for victory more balanced. But that way of action was discarded soon after.

Character “T” had contact with character “A” - who was already known for its toxic behavior. And soon after the scene with “T” that went completely different way than was planned - and not as my fault - character “A” began openly blaming me in public IC channels in attempt of “cheating” in duel by convincing character “L” to turn off gravity…

I know for sure that characters “T”, “A” and “L” are played by different people, that IC claim was made on OOC conversation with a different person.

So, I totally can understand how FRUSTRATING it can be when someone blames you in something you believe you did OOC. But if you did it for real IC without warning it was OOC - I think it’s better to just admit it, after all - if it were just words, you can always turn them in any way, you can put any narrative to them as you want, for example - deceiving an enemy.

Another issue that I’d like to address OOC-ly, since I’ve started it… NEVER… never ever be toxic to anyone, would it be IC or OOC, unless they started being toxic to you first. We have already a lot of personalities who make roleplaying scene very toxic with unneeded drama and baseless accusations. There are already enough of enemies for everyone to blap in space or yell at without making new ones.

And for those… who started being toxic to you. Please, just burn them down. Stomp them with all your might, and just do whatever you can to show them that what they do is bad, and that they won’t get away from it easily :wink:

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