Broker Relations

yes, because you did not replace the “modify the price -0.01” by anything.
Literally your “new bot” will just wait for orders to complete and won’t do anything else.

Against, thank you for proving this is a good thing. Bots won’t be able to cut orders fast without a big loss.

Only ones incurring big loses will be lazy human players leaving big orders. Rapid agile buy bots will continue to churn through small orders 24/7 undercutting You all the time with new buys that are either quickly fulfilled and vacate the slot or in case You decide to modify your order and race them, they can always cancel previous small one with much smaller penalty and microscopic fraction of taxes compared to You thanks to minimal quantity.

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The bot for which you gave the algorithm won’t.It will just wait.

That is unfortunately the new meta to be expected with the new rules. There is btw. no need for a bot to ever cancel his small orders. They can be fairly cheaply relisted due to the low value.
Especially relisting is almost universally cheaper than canceling and creating a new one as for relisting the order creation fee is multiplied by 1-relisting discount of 0.75 at level 5. The first term of the formula is 0 for all undercutting on sell orders anyways and for going up by the minimum increment on buy orders it’s also quite small in comparison to the second term.

Yeah, and he worst part is that it will also reward players adopting bot like behaviours. Why should somebody make one order for 1 000 000 units if one can churn through 1000 orders 1000 units each for almost the same total tax price and minimal risk of relist tax / price fluctuation exposure. If somebody is OCD enough to play the 0.01 ISK game, he can do it too.

There Is one gain in cancellation approach though: agility. You can list new order immediately without waiting 5 minutes, temporarily occupying 2 slots and cancelling old one afterwards.

@Scoots_Choco and @Black_Pedro
This whole topic is way outside of my area of knowledge and you guys seem to be pretty confident about this change. My impression is that this will inevitably have a significant impact on the number of buy orders that are available and also cause problems with liquidity in the markets - yet you two don’t seem to think this will be a problem. Is there something I am not understanding? Or does it just not matter because Eve is just a game and “whatever”?

Because what people are calling the “new meta” is what you should already do in order to avoid the cuts. When someone cuts you by 0.01, place another bunch of small orders with a significant reduction (something like -25% margin). Keep repeating until you reached a price where you have no margin (besides your base minimal margin), reducing the stack size each time. Now the price has crumbled and the margin of 0.01 gamers is set to 0, yet you have 5-6 orders ready when people stop playing the 0.01.

I had like tens of orders for one item in Jita. Never sell the whole stack, always go by a tenth. Of course, if people cut you enough, you stop putting orders. I’ve driven SO prices to like -30% or -50%. Had I played the 0.01 isk game I would have won nothing.

And of course, a “stack” refers to what you expect to sell, not what you have.

As a small trader handling a few trillion it will be exciting times battling the Perimeter Credit Card Mafia Hub and the Fuel Cartel with the new market changes in combo with the recent and future mining changes.

A drastic increase in the relist fee would be welcome.

The first 1% of the broker tax rate should be entirely ISK-sunk (ie. “go to the NPC corp”) - only increments on top of that 1% should be split 50:50

Not everyone on the market is a producer. What if someone’s supply chain is doing PvE, either because they are new or because that’s what they like to do? How are they going to optimise it? The payout for security missions is barely enough to cover the costs for ammo and repairs. One has to meticulously scrape every piece of loot and junk and sell it to make profit. Having an extortionate relist fee will discourage players from posting sell orders and instead sell at ridiculously low buy prices, slowing down their progression. The 0,01 ISK game is the only field leveling tool such players have against the ones with the big pockets in the highly ineffective EVE market.

Ok, limit the price change to at least 0,01% - that’s fair and will stop people from doing it too often, unless they want to crash the market or shoot the price way up. But it will be much better if the relist fee is tied to the number of modifications an order receives per 24 hours, starting small and going up exponentially. If I’m simply selling my loot, it will most likely be an order with a couple of items and I’ll simply want to adjust it once or twice in case someone dumps 10000 items just below my price right after I place the sell order. Of course, this applies in reverse too - the big players benefit as well since they can move their 10000 items before the pile of 1-item orders that came after their and get some of the sales before the 1-item orders pile up again. In the end, everybody wins.

Sounds like you’re doing a very poor job of mission farming, because you should be making a significant profit after ammo costs and repairs are free. And TBH picking up the loot isn’t usually worth it unless you’re already on top of the wreck, you’re better off moving on to the next mission and getting another set of bounties + completion rewards.

The 0,01 ISK game is the only field leveling tool such players have against the ones with the big pockets in the highly ineffective EVE market.

Except it isn’t a tool at all. Instead of spending your effort playing 0.01 ISK games just sell to the highest buy order and go farm more missions. You shouldn’t be screwing around with market sales unless you’re doing it as your primary career.

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Although this change may curb bots in margin trading, CCP is also effectively killing the profession. A few questions I would ask, 1.) Will this change result in a significant number of new players joining or old players rejoining to experience the content? 2.) Does this change significantly improve the experience of the game or trading as a profession? 3.) Are there any other options that meet objectives 1 or 2?

To me, it appears these changes effectively destroy margin trading and perhaps trading as a profession. The relist fee (over 1 percent, which is not realistic) takes away the entire point of the profession. I would also ask how this profession now compares to others given the investment of skills and time.

I’m not sure this will result in new plays joining or old players rejoining for quality new content.

Something to consider…

‘Relist Charge’ will kill trading at stations that are not trading hubs. Only kamikaze will update orders at unpopular stations, each time losing several percent of the total cost of a bundle of goods. Think it over! The rest of the changes are not bad.


Would anyone/someone consider posting an alternative set of patch notes? I would personally love to see professions expanded with new content, not less. Add one or two new professions. Add new tools to existing professions. Curb bots without taking away from players.

Yes. A player driven patch :joy: seems like a crazy idea.

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CCP might allow it if we crowdfund it :slight_smile:


+1 Happy to donate $15 to crowd sourced player driven update. Expand existing professions, add new professions, new tools, new content, balanced reward.

The problem here is the huge bid-ask spread for many items, often in orders of magnitude. It’s like in most RPGs where merchants would sell you an item for 1000 gold and buy it for 5. I get it that combat players shouldn’t care much, but it still feels unfair that one needs to sell a sh*tlot of loot to buy a new module or ship. Unless one invest in trading skills and start selling loot at sell and buying things at buy prices.

The market still needs to move, regardless.

People will either be unaffected, or they’ll sucj it up and keep working the markets because it’s still consistent and reliable.

If people leave the market and don’t set up buy orders, great,more space for my alts and me to take a bigger cut of the profits.

Why? What exactly is unfair about it? Everyone plays by the exact same rules here, you’re free to do all of the same things other buyers/sellers are doing if you choose to invest the effort. The fact that other players are not setting market orders in a way that benefits you does not mean that anything is unfair.