my station trader doesn’t even use 30 days, i use 2 weeks of buy/sellorders.
which according to you arent even included in the data analysis.
also at your first comment, i completely agree with you, ccp is just plain wrong.
i trade in amarr, and ive seen thousands of module markets over the years as i slowly moved over from the higher quantity/day to less quantity/day but higher profit value, due to the bigger margins.
at the 100+ quantity, i would say that about 10-15 seperate orders get updated on a daily basis, the rest (about 30 more dont get updated at all)
but the higher in value you go the less competition there is (obviously, coz it takes more isk to participate) so at the higher orders there is perhaps 3 to 7 buyorders up and thats it. they get updated, far more often than the higher quantiy/low priced items. like of those 7 orders 5 get updated on a daily basis, the other 2 will be updated like once every week or once every 2 weeks.
im personally flabbergasted at how ccp would even get to those numbers, im assuming that they use all orders in all of eve instead of just focusing on jita/amarr/hek/dodixie/rens
all stationtraders currently alive are wondering if you have actually ever traded solely in a station, just from that comment, yes we <3 0.01 isk changes, coz its more profit
Actually botters gain a new advantage over human traders with these changes.
No human will be able to minimize brokers fees like bots.
Humans sell in stacks, bots can sell single item stacks. Therefore bots pay only a fraction of the brokers fees.
Congrats on admitting you are a sheep. Whenever CCP desires, they will put a carrot in front of you and you will just follow. Today it is “market bots is a problem”, tomorrow it will be “green man”. Whatever they say, you accept.
I’m repeating myself for the last time: bots in the trading profession are/were irrelevant. They were there but most traders could easily manipulate them. They were never a problem. Trading is not a ISK faucet - it only makes money change hands - so bots in the trading business were not hurting the game - unlike the mining / ratting bots (which bring stuff into the game).
Your answers show you don’t understand much about trading. If someone can incur a small temporary isk loss to muscle people out of the market, it pays off in the longer run. It’s a gamble. It’s normal, and happens every day, but you seem really surprised. Shows how much you know, so please dont lecture people who have been playing as traders for years. What’s new to you or what you fail to grasp, is standard and has been going on for ages.
You still will be able to split your stacks and manipulate the prices. All you have to do is keep track of your relist costs - if you can code it’s even better: you can code a simulation on how many orders to create / how many stacks to create, and follow it when people add orders. Eventually they will leave the market because they won’t be able to relist anymore without incurring a loss.
The 4-digit magnitude will help even better now, you will be able to play and calculate on how many changes you can do before the price drops a magnitude and the 4-digit thing changes to a different magniutude along with the price.
I’m a sheep when you have forgotten your tinfoil hat ?
It’s their game, and they have the data. Whether you believe them or not is just irrelevant.
We can discuss the data, when we have them. Just because you don’t have them, you claim they don’t exist. That’s complete nonsense.
No it does not. All you do is, accept to take lower margin, so the people you “muscle out” will just get to a market with better margin, and come back later when you have lost money. Your “muscle out” is just a loss that you make and that other people are not willing to lose either. And if they are, you are losing even more.
What seems obvious to you, is actually stupid.
All that shows is that you are very bad at math. So yes I will lecture you whenever you claim something stupid.
And you will be left with 10s of orders above the present SO that you can’t afford to move because the cost is too high.
I don’t know what kind of orders these may be. I have always succeeded in selling my things at Jita within days, while 0.01 ISK-ing. I keep track of all my costs, including taxes that go under my orders. Most of my orders are in profits, with a very good margin at that.
So this is just conjecture. If what you do works for you, that’s fine. But these claims of yours about 0.01 ISK-ing are simply false.
I never claimed trading BOTS DONT EXIST. I claimed they are not an issue. This is like the 3rd time Im repeating the same thing. Bots in trading are not an issue for traders, nor they are an ISK faucet. How many more times should I say it?
The fact that they are killing the trading profession and tell you it’s just to deal with bots is a LIE.
As for what I normally do to buy out stuff and relist - I’m not going to into details because it really depends on so many things, and I change my strategies on the fly. And whenever i list one example (just like I did), you seem to think that’s 100% all i ever do - then you add a small variation and claim you won the argument, when in reality, on EVE, I would have reacted and changed my strategy at one point or the other…
But the gist of what’s going to happen from now is what I’ve described above. People with piles of ISK can afford to relist long enough to drive other people who are as committed or who dont have the resources from the market.
Bots still will be there anyway. CCP will “claim” success vs bots while they pull off whatever else they are ACTUALLY planning to do, and once again, you will think yourself triumphant. Congrats, “YOU’RE WINNER” (if u dont understand the reference look up BIG RIGS RACING)
I think he claims that the orders with high modifications are the orders with the highest margin, that is the orders for which the present price is too high to actually sell.
Consumer will rather wait a bit than pay for an over expensive item.
I think.
And I did not claim you claimed so -.-
Should I again lecture you on reading ?
Well when you don’t want to see the issue, of course there is no issue -.-
If bots were having no impact on the game, then there would not be bots.
If CCP says there are bots on the market, then that means the bots are making a profit. A profit that is done at the cost of non-bot players.
Now I don’t have the numbers, but CCP claims they exist, and we must trust them on that. If you don’t, you are talking out of your arse.
Because nobody gives a fck. Do what you want, even if it’s at loss, just to “flex your muscle” if you like it. But don’t claim that a loss is a win if you look at it with a blind eye.
BUT IT’S ALREADY THE CASE YOU IDIOT ! THAT WON’T CHANGE ! YOU ARE CRYING THAT CURRENT STATE IS BAD !
And since they will lose MORE money, you are actually saying that this is a good modification. so it’s a win in your eyes ? Is that what’s making your cry ? That you lose money but it’s a win for the game ?
Also I think those statistics used for backing the change are flawed. 90+% of orders don’t get changed?? ALL orders I see in Jita/Perimeter are changed at least once a day and usually many times a day if not fullfilled. I know that because if I leave an order untouched for 24h or longer, I’m at the bottom/top of the list. More so for buy orders.
As the majority of trade happens in Perimeter/Jita, there must be some problems with the statistics. I think one mentioned it before, did CCP include the immediate orders into the stats? This would explain the point, but also means their backing is void.
They have probably counted ALL orders across the entire EVE universe. Not just the 1st-line market hubs. And they also counted each order as one unit, regardless of the volume. So if I created 99 x 1 Trit unit orders in the most remote system, and 1 x 100m units in Jita (for which I change the price often), according to CCP, only 1% of the orders get changed.
That’s how you manipulate people with statistics.
Like increasing the relative value of PLEX by crashing the markets short term?
Like the turning eve into an economy of scarcity ensuring real money investments pay off in the near future ?
Like an overall increase in prices in the long run so the PLEX buying customers get much less out of their purchase than they thought ?
Immediate sales must be included, they’re being sold to buy orders. That essentially creates a sell order with no duration. (The buy order it goes against of course has some duration.)
You see guys it is happening right in front of your eyes ships for plex, has it already started?
CCP do not need market and industry in the game. They can build anything and sell it for $, EUR. This is the future of the game. Enjoy the game when you still can. This is not EVE, this is bussines.
I’d rather they turned it into an Entropia Universe economy variation. Big casino-like game. But you still can trade and make money playing the markets.
It is one thing to be organized well enough to weather adverse conditions like this easily, and completely different to advocate for changes that hurt the game and player base as a whole. I live in null and even though I am an insignificant bee and speak just for myself, I believe I have been vocal in my opposition to these changes, in fact this is the first thing in many years of my Eve gaming that triggered me enough to open a forum account and voice my concerns in naive last ditch effort that somebody listens. Alas, I see no CCP Dev interaction here.
