The same as of today with the 0.01 ISK war. What is the point?
okay so they will just keep doing the same thing. Then itâs the point 2. : they will both lose so much money in broker fees that they canât make more investment.
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No they wonât. The algorithm will be more complex (see sketch above), but they will try to compete. Maybe the one with more bots/slots will win?
And thatâs the point. Obviously, you can still make a bot. But it will be much harder to make than now.
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Win what ? The right to compete against another one, or against players, with a reduced amount of slots ?
Again, unless you are alone on the market, your sketch results in a net loss for the bot. And if you are alone, you can place a big order.
Not only âmore complexâ but also, much less lucrative.
If you canât prevent bots, then just starve the bot users.
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Correct. But Iâm an IT guy, I know what algorithms are good at and most people are not, solving complex optimisation problems in real-time.
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Good, then we can discuss : what algorithm does not result in a net loss for a bot then, when encountering another bot, or several players that place many orders ?
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But we are not comparing new system against nothing, we are comparing new system against old system. And in the old system, you donât need to be an IT guy to determine a good enough strategy: select a level and 0.01ISK if the current price is still higher than this level.
What are you willing to pay? ;D
Seriously, I have better to do than programming for a computer game.
Then you are no IT guy⌠seriously.
Your claim that the future situation will be better for bots is BS. The ideal situation for bots is now, this change will make bots much less interesting to code.
Very true. That is the problem. The change reduces the solution space for the trade game, forcing the bots to adapt to algorithms which are super human.
I like dumb, cheap bots, I can beat with my brain and some minor loss of profit. There is no chance against the new bots.
The problem with this particular dumb bot is that you can beat it, maybe, 4hrs a day, but other 20 hours you are offline and dumb bot still makes dumb things without risks and with profits.
And that result in an attrition in all the cases, unless you are alone on the market.
So far, so good.
BTW no, if the search space is more constrained, searching it for the optimal solution is faster, unless your heuristics are screwed.
Also, in most cases you are making a gamble : accept to lose resources to gain potentially more resources. Before, the loss was 100 isk, so nothing. Now it will be a real gamble, with most choices having a negative outcome.
The solution was always there but just not the best/only one. The solution space is reduced by removing a lot of simple strategies.
EDIT: yes, the trade will have a much higher gambling part, which can be mitigated by scale and statistics. You know, the one algorithms are good at.
A solution is an action to take(or a series). All the previous solutions are still available, since no action will be removed. What changes is the valuation of those solutions, so that what was before the trivial best solution, will be a bad solution most of the time.
No you just canât. Statistics rely on accurate data, which the game does not provide. Your stochastic solver will have an error margin high enough to make your loss look like a gain.
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You and me too are assuming a lot here. Letâs wait and see, CCP unlikely change their mind before the patch goes live. But of course trying is important.
I am not.
If you want to make a stochastic minmax, you need to estimate the chance that someone else cuts you, the chance that an item is sold, for the next 5 minute. The game does not allow you to have any of those two data accurately, all you can have is the number of items that were sold.
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Yeah the whole thing is a pretty weird to me, but CCP explicitly wants to make the market less responsive. From the Dev Blog:
Increasing the modification costs will mean that the strategy of always modifying every order as quickly as possible will quickly become unprofitable.
I agree that it doesnât actually address the issue of bots, just makes everything more cumbersome, for everyone. Feels a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but maybe the thinking is that industrialists and others who rely on the market will adapt relatively quickly.
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Does not change a thing for people who did not care about 0.01 iskers.
My impression was everyone would be subject to the changes.