I feel it’s important to point out that the discussion in this article about the fraction of orders that is or is not modified is highly misleading and flawed. The author seems to imply that since 94% of orders are unmodified, the changes to relisting will have minimal economic impact. However, he fails to account for the volume of the orders and whether or not they are filled.
Orders by themselves don’t create liquidity. Only orders that are filled and filled in sufficient volume create liquidity. In order to predict the effects of the relisting fee on the market, the author needs to address what fraction of total trade volume is handled by a modified order. Either buy side, sell side or both.
Typically in these market-making scenarios, a few participants produce most of the liquidity with relatively few large volume orders. Distorting this mechanic could have a significant impact on the overall health of the market.
EDIT
I would also add that the claim that these changes will defeat trade bots is not correct. It’s still quite possible to operate a trading bot. Instead of fixed transaction costs, the bot needs to have a statistical model of the transaction cost, based on how many times an order is likely to be changed. It’s certainly possible to train a model like this from the available data. Instead of leveling the playing field, these changes might push more of the trade into the hands of players who have the knowledge and tools to do this.
So far so good, it seems. I am not updating orders yet and buy orders are being filled at much higher rate than before. Which is good. Now just have to wait for couple of weeks and see how the prices will stabilize at.
The fact that i did not have to update orders today felt good, instead of doing that i spent all that time observing other items and trying to formulate a strategy for them.
I haven’t really found a way to create an excel formula to easily calculate the new fee. The problem i want to solve is so that i don’t have the need to both fill in the current price and the new price to get the fee amount.
Hopefully apps like jEvEAssets, which i recommend to all, will find a smart solution for traders. Also i would love recommendations for other apps.
Edit: This was intended as a new post and not a reply to Anderson. my bad
Or you place a SO above the bottom 10 orders and wait for yours to sell. If there’s enough demand and not that much supply, it often does! sometimes within a week, sometimes without touching it again between point A and point B.
Not saying this is always possible, but it already is sometimes possible, it’ll be even more sometimes possible with the new system.
We are in the chaos period (probably till the next 2-3 months) :
@Wade_Deadpool_Willson : about the plex , it is still moving in its right trend
and any relevant trade fact still need at least 4-5 days of unusual behaviours.
The traders still got there 0.001% habit
( I don’t care if my margin is shrinking, most of my short-term products have a 200-300% margin )
Traders under 10-20B won’t be able to have self-sufficient source on income sollely through trade.
( this change is a god-sent for the “old” traders @Ahuraa who enjoy the tranquility : eye of the storm )
@Gowa_Hyasyoda the strategy you are indicating works between large order or small order ,
the same way when 2 traders fight one with 5 small orders and one with a only big order ( same quantities )
If the two traders have the same amount in their orders, they will both suffer, and the fight will go to the bitter end ,
and as I am quite sure they would not be the only 2 traders, that will cause a crash product.
something I let you try
modifying an order without any change would cost you a relist fee.
One other reason to have a really quiet trade, is all the bugs we will be confronted to
and also to let sink new way of trading.
Spammed up a ton of regional buys before margin trading got ban hammered for one last hurrah, works perfect because they are slowly slowly, so nothing causing the ‘not enough isk to fill order’ to trip. So steadily accumulating a ton of ■■■■ at bargain prices, which I will consolidate in a week or 3 and make bank on.
Way less sell orders getting undercut, literally had less than 20 instead of the usual 100 after 12 hours or so. Bought out the competition on most of the ones that were (often cheaper than taxes to re-pricing so no brainer), and relisted some without too much pain. With the new whatever skill already at V, the relist cost actually isn’t that bad, few mil/10 mil here and there or whatever, don’t really gaf tbh. I think only had about 3 or 4 big ones I’m holding on till they fight to a lower isk amount, then I’ll buy them out. 4 significant figures is a lot less tedious too than having to carefully check pole position incase someone is doing the change a 8 for a 0 in the middle trick.
Couriers seem to be getting hammered as predicted since liquidity has taken a hammering from the margin nerf. I recon a lot of traders like me did the same and invested hard in long term buys, so it’ll be slow for a bit for them. I’m accumulating stuff at a steady click, as fewer/cheaper buys to compete with. So I think in a few days I’ll have some work for them again and I have some piles of stuff to move, also as isk levels recover and I do a few bulk direct buys.
No real pain to me as predicted, looks more like it’s everyone other than serious traders like myself are the ones getting shafted also as predicted.
margin % = (sell price - total invested) / sell price * 100 . If it’s higher than 100, that means that you invested a negative price in the item.
I think you meant spread is +200-300% .
Like I said, I did expect to do ok out of the changes, definitely has some benefits for me personally. It’s more the other traders that have less capital to trade with that will suffer a bit, and those that orbit around the traders generally are getting a bit of a knock. Although I think things will stabilize in a few days and find a new equilibrium, but some stuff certainly won’t be as lucrative as before as things slow down from less hot isk available(i.e. margins).
Actually thinking I’ll do better out of this tbh. Anyway time will tell.
Yes, you are right. I had more global vision of eve in mind saying people will stick with plex as a reliable source of wealth accumulation. Next week drastic moon ore changes are incoming that will definitely choke eve mining and industry. Trade is already stuck. A lot of people will leave as a lot of new people to the game will buy plex from CCP seeing good market for it. Hard to say how it will end really at this point since we do not know next moves of devs. I bet for CCP goes with big steps into microtransactions market marginalizing all fields of play but pvp in the game. Introducing hyperinflation would be the one direction to achieve it relatively fast without big drops in general player base, having in mind that a lot of new players from Asia joined recently to sort of balance reduction of old players base. Really I do not feel positive about last CCP moves.
… More red dots … …?
Edit: It is obvious that CCP wants at this point to deplete accumulated in stores goods. What will come next is kind of mistery :).
Orders outside profit range (sell below production or buy above profit margin) are not contested anymore - hence the simple bots seem to be gone
Reasonably priced orders are undercut as before, hence bad for casual marketeers
Trade volume significantly went down, some items don’t have buy orders anymore
I was not able to multi-buy my input material (never happened before), some stuff were always not enough quantity
Calculating the relist fee and consequences on your order is a pain, I refuse to start using a spreadsheet for that (I never used spreadsheets for EvE, and I don’t want to start with it)
“People” who can spam small orders 23/7 are at an advantage, as predicted.
It is not your formula indeed
My definition is ( don’t have the right word for that " possible gain “, " profitability”, " a form of leverage" ) : [ SO price ( estimated with taxe without relisting) ] / [ isk invested ( with taxe) ] x100
This is a simple criteria I use to know how well I will perform against any “local” traders.
( local mean in the station at the time of the sell )
@Tipa_Riot : I modified yesterday all my orders as usual , the only drawback is as far as I understood you’re losing your isks from the lost margin skill .
I did also report a case of ghost trade order appearing in my history, a sell order I was supposed to execute while I was not at home , working …
So between the “bugs” , some strange behaviours of the market , the first week could be surprising.
The new first rule I will definitly apply : no more large order .
No, it’s not. Because it was not the case until yesterday downtime!
Before you ask for the reason. Since yesterday I could update my orders once every day at zero cost to keep up with the no-lifers and bots.
And again, I’m not a trader, I don’t want to sit my play time only working the market. It’s just a necessary side aspect for me dealing with my production. If I’m only able to sell/buy stuff while I was actively manage lots of small orders, then this isn’t fun anymore.
It’s always been. People who are more active have more chances to make rewarding choices.
That’s the return on investment +100 . Return on investment - Wikipedia , def 3.
In your case a value of 150 means you actually got +50% value after a cycle.
You may use the profit percentage instead.
if you want to evaluate several market over time, use the log profit multiple divided by the cycle time :
timed_mult = log(income/acquisitioncost) / cycle_time , with cycle time being the estimated time before a full batch of X items are actually bought and sold (take the max of the two if you have a dynamic pipeline)
