When you grocery shop, you buy from sell orders or you don’t buy… you don’t put up buy orders. there’s no haggling the price down.
Shoulda used an outdoor market with malleable street vendors for your analogy.
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The real question is: Why do we even need a relist fee if the 4 figures rule already pushes prices to their equilibrium pretty fast anyway?
The relist fee only really punishes having big orders up, which is dumb and just leads to more micro managing orders.
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I’m not a industrial/trader anymore.
I’m a tax collector for CCP
Please CCP, could make me a formal contract for that ?
No problem to pay me only in game by PLEX.
Thanks
I guess a lot of people are going to be holding instead of selling then, which is what some people seem to be scared of… we’ll see.
Hence, making the bot all the more efficient against human player.
In fact they defeat even their very purpose , CCP wishes to have less stress server coming from all the BO/SO activities .
Instead of having one order, now you are compelled to have many .
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I never post on these forums, but this change is so poorly designed and poorly implemented that I had to say something.
The relist changes and changes to fees make manufacturing completely untenable as the fees eat up all margin when trying to respond to changes in market conditions.
And the change to the margin trading skill is destroying liquidity provided by buy orders - check 800M repeating cannons II.
I for one have discontinued all market and manufacturing operations. Please revert this garbage, the “issue” you were trying to solve was so small I never noticed it in 5 years of trading and manufacturing.
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One competitor less 
It’s 300M isk to post a measly 5B sell order…you’ll be out of the game too soon. It’d be 100’s of millions more to adjust the order in any way.
What is the point of an interactive market if you can’t interact with it?
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Well, you don’t know what you are talking about, of course. If eggs are a dollar per dozen, and people aren’t buying them, the grocery store will notice and consider dropping the price. I guarantee you there are people out there watching the price of toilet paper and ready to buy when it drops.
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Also, at least where I live, many stores keep an eye on other store’s ads and send secret shoppers to their competitors. Then they put their own item just a tiny bit cheaper (0.1 isking eachother). Then look online. Again stores have the same item for pennies difference. They constantly undercut each other by a tiny amount. There is no fees to do this from the government or a broker. The whole “making the market realistic” reason from CCP is a load of crap. 0.1 isking and no change fees ARE the real market.
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Where I live the following happens often:
A guy suddently jumps to the store front outside,
detonates a grenade,
grabs the Kiwis,Salami & Spaghetti from the dead customers,
runs in to the shop
and put his own sales sign up, next to the regular shop sign…
"Kiwis,Salami & Spaghetti ### -$0.01 cheaper ! ###
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I never really needed margin trade, I simply buy low sell high with money I actually have.
But this…broker fee???
I’m sorry. I’ve been around since 2009. A lot of changes happened to the CORE game namely nullsec and this market mini game was one of the oldest parts of the game I’ve started to enjoy, helping the supply and demand while I sleep.
If this change persists I’ll unsubscribe and just focus on my real life.
I remember the days eve had 50K player base.
Look at this.
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It’s over a day since I posted the
Great Intelligent Pricing Challenge
No one has been able to come up with an “intelligent” price…
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What do you think ?
CCP just kill the intelligent part of the trade , the cost of having his order on pole position is clearly a deterrent .
I will try to be smart :
- I put a Sell Order at a good price hopping noone will undercut me
- They did it , those rascals undercut me
Now I feel like an idiot
You’ll have to compensate any order change to get the product at - at least- " max( Buy Order) - 20-30% "
and pray your competitor doesn’t get them at " max( Buy Order) - 50-60% " .
It is more the “Great Dummest Pricing Challenge”
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Those CODE. bastards!
I must be seeing things
Marked…
Not a fan, change it back please!!! Sure, hate bots. But i have made all my isk via trade, bots or no bots. Dont have to look at intel/local and whatnot to grind isk, hate that! Just modify my orders 1-3 times a day, and i have what i need. Now Modify is broken and i will not have what i need. Trained 8 toons for production and trade, they have done there job for 12+ years. This is horrible!!! 8((
Been hospitalized, so this is my first time modifying orders since ccp broke the best marked in any game. Just modifyed my Jita tradealt’s sellorders and a few buyorders. a little less than 1.5 bill out the window. this is a deal breaker for me ccp! When my isk has been used up, im out!!! Played this game since 2006, loved it! But if i cant make my isk via trade in npc stations, im done!!! o/
CHANGE SUBSCRIPTION PLAN - Done, so i dont by mistake pay for a hole year now on one of my 4 accounts. Please ccp, you had the best marked, dont… just dont!!!
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Maybe a naive question on my part, but do you really expect to price an item “intelligently” based only on the listed sell price and some rough estimates of new orders per day and sales per day? Don’t costs have to figure into this somehow?
What I mean is, where did this Raven you’re selling come from? Did you spend 100 mil manufacturing it? Then the existing prices are already so close to your costs that it might be smarter not to list it today at all. If it just magically appeared in your hangar…you could list it for well below manufacturing cost and expect not to be undercut.
Along the same lines, why do you have “no idea” what the additional 5 listings will be? Even just with the information provided I feel pretty safe to say the future listings won’t be, say, 500 mil. And it’s unlikely they will be 25 mil, either. Or put another way, if you do the work and know what it costs to manufacture the hull and/or what someone might have recently paid for one to relist it, you have a realistic picture of how low your competition can go and you have to decide whether you can afford to undercut them or not.
My feeling is this CCP’s intention for the change - make it much harder for resellers, and try to force everything down to the smallest profitability possible. So the way one manufacturer makes more sales than another is by actually bringing down their costs, not by out-updating their orders.
Whether it’ll actually have that effect…
Manufacturers already had costs as low as they can, anyone making anything that uses more than basic minerals, already are calculating the cost of every step, every material, there are websites and calculators for this, and endless spreadsheets made. They probably tried to buy things at sell price if they cannot make it, and nearly everyone has to buy at least part of it, which means they have to try and first buy things as low as possible before even making anything. Occasionally you get things on sell order if you can, to speed up the process of getting a product to market so you have more isk to invest into more parts.
The notion that margin traders and manufacturers are 2 different things is wrong, something hurts 1 also hurts the other. Competing on prices is not some petty thing people do just to annoy others, it is how the market constantly balanced itself, and how people do things in a timely fashion. Seeing as how many people are saying they have pulled out of manufacturing/trading, suggests there are less people doing either. If anything the costs of parts and the items made with them will go up. Since there are only 2 checks for prices, the first is if someone else is selling cheaper, the second is, will anyone pay this. You would be amazed what people will pay for something if it is only available anywhere for a high price, in fact often they will even buy it for a high price just from laziness. So there is little motivation to have competitively low prices unless other people are undercutting, since you need to be pretty ridiculously high before people will simply refuse to buy that thing they really need.
This is when traders come into play. For resellers they would acquire goods that had been sold to them via their buy orders from people who picked up modules dropped in pvp etc. and just instant sold them for ease. These traders want to move items more quickly and are willing to drop the prices much lower to get a faster sale. This is a large part of what keeps things at reasonable prices, people constantly pushing margins. Like it or not, our traders keep the market alive, and apart from the occasional manipulation, they also keep prices more reasonable and stable by always poking each other, this in turn affects the prices to manufacture items, and the end price they are able to sell their product for.
The only thing that has really happened is less people are in the market, and instead of .01isk annoyances, its order spam annoyances. Even though people can still navigate the market and make money, I feel its a terrible change that gets less players doing anything in the game, the idea should be to get more people doing it. 
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I think you’ll have to wait some couple of weeks ,
the market is hectic now maybe having covid19 …
Price are going down fast , not many know how to cope with these rules …
In few days, the cost of manufacture with probably the rebalancing of the ore could be lowered
meaning new pricing but I don’t think higher than now , probably much lower …
So i am a bit contradictory, if you wait : any actual manufactured product could be sold at loss,
il you sell now you will maybe not recover your isk .
I think : Loss (sell now) < Loss (sell later)
Better deal with the devil you know …
The tritanium is at 8 isk/unit ( it use to be at 4-5isk before the CCP test)
what will happen after the rebalancing ?
But you know , this is a sure fact : the market is player-driven 
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