Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

guide

(Anderson Geten) #288

the dragonfly have a dread guristas inferno rocket ? which deals 40 damage every 3s with a 80% resist (ie 40/3*5 = ±66.7 DPS)

223 from kine+explo crit, ie base = 74.3 with 70/50 resists.
I should have brought a 40% explosive hardener to get the total damage per type.


(Anderson Geten) #289

without the DC II and orbiting 1000m I was bleeding on armor on the mantis. (also I full stopped )
Once I orbit 1500m I stopped bleedng and reach full shield without the DC II


(Anderson Geten) #290

mantis I could not catch them with web (almost burnt the two 60%)
precision
n : 293
1p : 356
2p : 362
with the small diff in damage(6 only) it looks like I’m close to the evasion of the mantis. ie max volley = 362, so 60% em resist
all other ammos performed worse with 2p

also that means that naked precision are 81% apply, thus precision/evasion is 0.686
ie rat evasion is 37.17
ie rat sig is 14.5m
according to this both rats have same signature radius

ie with precision missiles and no rig,
mantis need 37.17 * 18/306 = 2.19 => 119% bonus apply, that’s one T1 rigor and 2 painters
drragonflies need 82.6 * 18/306 = * 4.86 apply mult. that’s already reached with 2 60% webs alone

=> one can reach max apply with precisions using one T1 rigor + 2 rf vs mantis and 2 webs vs dragonflies.

ie,

this fit
[Cerberus, base guristas]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II



Acolyte II x3

Mjolnir Precision Light Missile x2562

should have optimal DPS. it also need 2 webs to refit.

The mantis die in 16-18 missiles, the dragonflies in 10+

next I need to check the orthrus on this. the orthrus has less cap, less resist, but a bit more DPS, a good more effective DPS (not the stupid RoF bonus).

Also check the cerberus with HAM


(elitatwo) #291

I assume you are still talking about the Cerberus? Can you do something similar with the Caracal Navy Issue?
The Caracal Navy Issue doesn’t have the kinetic lock, the same 6 launchers, no t2 resist but the application bonus.


(Anderson Geten) #292

I liinked the fit.

I just needed the sig and speed, made a mission got them, now I can minmax a bit.

BTW forget the hams they have 2.5 less precision than fury light -.-’


(Anderson Geten) #293

precision of ammo on a drakeNI (cald BC IV only) with
PRLML 17
CNRLML 8.5
FRLML 4.2
CNHAM 2.02
PHM 1.94
CNHM 1.44

precision on nCaracal
CNHAM 2.16
RHAM 1.0875

evasion of the mantis with 0…2 web (lines) and 0…2 TP(cols)

mantis tp
web 37.7 26.7375886524823 19.7137696602366
15.08 10.6950354609929 7.88550786409463
7.217288 5.1186439716312 3.77400406375569
dragonfly tp
web 82.6 58.5815602836879 43.1925032874149
33.04 23.4326241134752 17.277001314966
15.812944 11.2148539007092 8.2687728293427

basically I need 19.7 precision with 2p vs mantis and 15.8 precision with 2w vs dragonfly.
The only one close to this is the PRLML (17)


(Anderson Geten) #294

to get the precision, just fit the launcher in simulation, fit the ammo, then click on the “i” button bellow the launcher to show ammo data. then divide explosion speed (should be green) by explosion radius(green too) .
you need to have precision >= evasion of rat to make 100% apply(also to have rat sig > explosion sig, which is done with one rigor T1 rig for precision), whith evasion = speed/sig


(Anderson Geten) #295

and the tracking values for the rats

	dragonfly	mantis
distance	9130	18000
speed	1200	900
sig	14.5	14.5
angular	0.131434830230011	0.05
gun evasion	362.578842013823	137.931034482759
w60	145.031536805529	55.1724137931035
2w60	69.325074593043	26.3724137931034
3w60	45.5743040374665	17.3372248275862
w90	36.2578842013823	13.7931034482759
2w90	7.86796087169996	2.99310344827586
3w90	3.82461577973335	1.4549475862069
p41	257.148114903421	97.8234287111763
2p41	189.539408051464	72.103949812911
3p41	153.583884784552	58.4258695034567
2w60 1p41	49.166719569534	18.7038395695769
1w90 2p41	18.9539408051464	7.2103949812911

when your gun has the tracking, it deals 40% of its nominal DPS ; when it has double the tracking, it deals 90%
eg a vigilant with 2w90 using 250railgun with javelin, a metastasis T1 and a tacking enhancer would have 12.8 tracking, the target being in optimal that means 7.8/12.8 ratio, ie (7.8/12.8)^2 tracking distance so 0.773 hit chance, eg ± 71.04% apply vs the df.
removing the tracking enhancer and adding a second metastasis would give 13.32 tracking, ie 0.79 hit chance ie 73% apply vs the df.

However, since he could catch the mantis, this means very low tracking with painter thus useless.
unless one can find a mutaplasmid web with >18km range

Of course, this does not consider what happens when you chase him. in that case you must remove your own speed from the target’s speed, after having webbed it, and before getting the angular. ie a dragonfly that is double webbed 90 will only go 26 m/s which is lower than you, approaching him will give it 0 angular. same for a mantis, once it is webbed it will have 0 angular

I think a BC with lasers may be good but actually

Summary
[Harbinger Navy Issue, *Simulated Harbinger Navy Issue]
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Tracking Computer II

Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Armor Command Burst II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Energy Metastasis Adjuster II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I




Armor Energizing Charge x300
Tracking Speed Script x1
Scorch M x7
Conflagration M x1
Imperial Navy Multifrequency M x1

they lack tracking
with focused pulse II and scorch I can get 53.6 tracking while I need to be above 58 (ie 3paitners) to deal at least 40% DPS

Maybe using 5 sw-600 could help track ? or 2 SW-900 because that would reduce the speed even more. That would allow me to had 50% to tracking, ie reach 81 tracking, thus 69.8% hit = 61.8% apply with focused medium pulse laser II +scorch.
This should theorically apply 380 DPS with max skills but in thermal/em, while precision apply 232 EM dps (a bit less since I reload every 18 shot).


(Ploing) #296

@Anderson_Geten is in rage math mode :joy:


(Qberty Thoth) #297

If you go with laser maybe you can try fitting an Ashimmu it has a 20km web with max skills, haven’t tried though.


(Anderson Geten) #298

I thought of it, but I guess it will lack tanking and/or apply. yet I think you are right, an ashimnu would be the best here

BTW don’t forget to orbit the mantis @500m and not approach it, otherwise when it dies you are going to remain a sitting duck.

hmm can you scram the dragonflies ?
can you nos from the rats ?

what do you think of this fit ?

base guristas
 [Ashimmu, *Simulated Ashimmu]
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Reactive Armor Hardener
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Medium Energy Nosferatu II
Medium Energy Nosferatu II

Medium Energy Metastasis Adjuster I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II




Imperial Navy Multifrequency M x4
Scorch M x1
Conflagration M x1

(edit : used T2 mids and tracking rig)

scorch vs mantis, multifreq vs dragonfly. approach the dragonfly, orbit the mantis @500

I can’t test it because I completed the mission on sisi :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:


(Chainsaw Plankton) #299

the issue there is going to be tracking, I don’t think you are going to be able to land hits on the dragonfly wave with medium lasers. Vigilant works on that wave because of the dual 90% webs makes it faster so it can control transversal.

Also it might be worth thinking about kiting setups, it’s wasn’t too hard to out run the fighters. One of my early tests was a kite oracle, but the sig radius is so small on the fighters it was hard to hit unless you are at 0 transversal, I kinda wanted to try a zealot or Omen navy issue, but I’m assuming they will have the same problems, although maybe the extra tracking would make a difference. The Navy harb might do well with a kiting fit.

Kiting Cerb might work, give up the webs but gain painters or Missile guidance comps, not sure what the application trade off is there. You can give up the tank slots, although It’s been long enough I’m not sure what the chances of rogue hits are.


(Chainsaw Plankton) #300

can always pull it again, and use booststandings if you go too low.


(Anderson Geten) #301

doesn’t work on agent standing. IIRC


(Chainsaw Plankton) #302

It does if you are docked in station with them afaik.


(Sinjin Pava) #303

I usually just go to another L4 agent and decline missions until I pick it up again.


(Slept) #304

I’ve done the Gurista base about 30-40 times over the past years (not regularly, but sometimes when i’m bored enough), and i’ve never gotten a faction module or gila bpc from it, so ymmv. Plenty of ammo though.

A kitey Navy Harby (MWD+MJD) runs about 16min +/- a min or so.

[Harbinger Navy Issue, (。:heart::heart:。)]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Overdrive Injector System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Alumel-Wired Enduring Sensor Booster
Tracking Computer II
Medium Micro Jump Drive

Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II
Heavy Beam Laser II

Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II

Hobgoblin II x5
Acolyte II x10

Targeting Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Optimal Range Script x1
Imperial Navy Multifrequency M x6
Scan Resolution Script x1
Imperial Navy Xray M x6
Aurora M x6
Imperial Navy Standard M x6
Imperial Navy Infrared M x6
Nanite Repair Paste x73
Imperial Navy Radio M x6

Probably needs some fitting implants but shouldn’t be too hard to adjust for whatever.

I’ve also tried a vanilla T2 Pulse Omen (close to 30 min), T2 Pulse Navy Omen (~25min), polarized Navy Omen (gets a little sketchy with range, ~20min), and a T2 Beam Harby (litte over 20min). I think I tried a Polarized Harby at some point but I don’t remember exactly.


(Zarek Kree) #305

Can confirm that /booststandings will boost agent standings to 10 if docked in station with them. Just used it today, so it still works.


(Anderson Geten) #306

hmm I don’t have T2 lasers though.
I guess I will try with T1 lasers.

ok so the scram has no effect, the nos however has ; but the burners have limited cap ; though they don’t go below 150 m/s when nosed out.( ie you can’t neut them propmod)

with lower skills, using a 10mn AB I can make the dragonfly angular small enough to destroy it.

vs dragonfly the reactive armor goes 30 thermal 30 explo, leading to 80/68/76 resists. since going vs mantis was very easy, I consider using thermal and explosive x-type armor hardner +eanm
dragonfly deal 20/x<32/24 parts of DPS

ok so strategy :
1st and 2nd df, you approach with full webs. use conflag
3rd df kar 6000 otherwise you get too close and can’t track it.
mantis kar 6000,activate 3 webs at first, then 1 web when range <10000. start with scorch, switch to conflag under 9000m. you really need to want to die against them.

actually using 10mn is not enough, the df are in 50% falloff.


(Zarek Kree) #307

I just wanted to post an alternate fit for the 3 Burner Talos mission that hasn’t gotten as much attention. It’s based on a fit that Chainsaw Plankton posted some time ago that I simply tanked up a bit. I also had to replace his neutron blasters with ion blasters because I lacked the fitting skills. I call it my Talos for Dummies fit because it makes the mission completely idiot proof. The only downside is that it’s a little blingy - although you could probably get away with making it a little cheaper.

It’s basically just a cap stable Deimos with a stupid amount of tank. At around 2700 EHP/s, it can tank all 3 Talos’s as well as a couple of proximity turrets, even while sitting still with the MWD on. There’s almost no realistic way to lose the ship short of a gank.

The basic premise is to simply warp in, fly straight at each Talos, kill them when in range and loot as you go. No need for manual piloting or flying around the proximity turrets. You can certainly overheat the MWD and blasters if you want to cut your run time down a bit, but it’s not necessary. I run it in about 6 minutes without overheating anything.

The only reason to use this over other fits is if you’re a really lazy burner pilot like me. I prefer bullet proof simplicity over efficiency. That’s also why I don’t bother with combat drones - they get eaten too quickly and require micromanagement.

[Deimos, Talos for Dummies]

Corpus X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Reactive Armor Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Shadow Serpentis 50MN Microwarpdrive
Large Cap Battery I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Edit: I just rechecked my run time. The 6 minute range was with a more optimized fit. As posted, I’m getting about 9 minutes. That’s with about 1900 m/s speed and 500 DPS (all unheated). Total price tag is about 1B isk.

Edit 2: Based on some feedback from Anderson Geten, I’ve modified the fit a bit. The is my final version. It runs about 45 second faster with the increased DPS (546 DPS with my skills)

[Deimos, Talos for Dummies v2]

Corpus X-Type Armor Thermal Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener
Reactive Armor Hardener
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Hybrid Burst Aerator II