Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

guide

(Qberty Thoth) #328

Nice, thanks to you I can make some adjustments to my Muninn fit, here’s the following :
[Muninn, Burner Anomic Base]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Large Cap Battery II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator II

Acolyte II x5

Republic Fleet EMP M x8500
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x6400

Basically the kinetic hardener remplaced by another armor rep which will according to my calculations allow me to tank the 3 dragonflies, and phased plasma to exploit the mantis’ weakness to Thermal, the rest is the same.

If not for the frigging bug, I would immediately test this fit.


(Qberty Thoth) #329

Despite the issues ongoing with SiSi (seriously screw those bugs), I ran tests with my fit and its tank is almost unbreakable and most importantly cap stable, the guns have no issue inflicting damage on dragonflies, it takes about 40 seconds to kill one dragonfly while one mantis needs one whole minute, now if we suppose that we do this mission perfectly that means the mission will last for about 15 minutes much better than the cerberus.


(Mokey PYD) #330

Have you tested the Muninn fit?


(Anderson Geten) #331

indeed the bugs are ■■■■■■■ annoying.
Just to kill 3 df and 2 mantis I needed everytime to /moveme jita, then dock in jita, alt F4, relog, warp back to mission -.-

Also something I forgot to mention :
while the DPS of the df is explo mostly, actually it ha a non-null chance to miss even on a still target, when webbed. that means that the explo/kin DPS is reduced .
if there was not those bugs I would kill two DF to test how many misses I have from DF in 3min, which is 90 shots, first when still and him orbiting 1200, then still and him double webbed, then orbiting and him 1200, then orbiting and him double webbed.
My guess is that the 1200 should have at most 75% hit chance, ie (0.75 * 0.75+0.75+0.05)/2 = 68% apply, which mean you should consider only 2 * 0.68+1 = 2.36 effective burner DPS for guns (still 3 burners for rockets)
IE you should tank for type ratio 5therm 2kine 6explo (multiply by 24 for real numbers)


The munnin should have no issue using mwd because

  • minmatar T2
  • armor
  • HAC bloom reduced

a normal mwd should not increase the damage taken by torps as long as you are going full speed. on a HAC it actually reduces the damage taken (as long as you are moving)

I put your fit on pyfa and it tells me you can tank 383 ehp/s vs dragonfly, while my guess is they deal around 312 hp/s

I tweaked it a bit, the best DPS is gained from AE2+MA2 rigs, which means you have tracking and range issue (going 2AE2 was better than 2MA2)

280 dual
[Muninn, AE2 MA2]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II


Acolyte II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x8500
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x6400

Then I tried with 425mm.

425
[Muninn, 425 MA2 AE2]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II


Acolyte II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x8500
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x6400

2MA2 gets the more DPS at 9.1km (327 while dual 280 reaches 304) but it already is at peak, while MA2 AE2 increases falloff, thus though it reaches 316 DPs only vs dragonfly it can deal DPS to mantis faster.

So after that you refit to mantis fit

425 MA2 AE2
[Muninn, mantis 425 MA2 AE2]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II


Acolyte II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x8500
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x6400

2*TP + tracking comp with range script gives best DPS when approahcing it (meaning, reducing its speed to sqrt(900²-312²)=844 m/s transversal). However the DPS is very very low.

meaning, you should actually stick with mwd+2w60 refit


(Anderson Geten) #332

ok now I tried to fit the 50mn formantis

Mom ! I made this !
[Muninn, mantis 425 MA2 AE2]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

50MN Digital Booster Microwarpdrive
'Thurifer' Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

425mm AutoCannon II, Domination EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Domination EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Domination EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Domination EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Domination EMP M

Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II


Acolyte II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x8500
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x6400

had to downgrade a rep to a A-type as well as using storyline mods. The fit is not capstable, but you should not need the double rep. with almost 1200 m/s difference, you should be able to catch the mantis in 4s , then deactivate mwd and KaR 5 km to apply 250 effective DPS on the unsuspicious target (290 with drones).


(Qberty Thoth) #333

Yes indeed if you run the MWD continuously the fit is not cap stable but if you pulse it for 1 or 2 cycle enough for catching up the mantis and webbing it then it is cap stable.

For the 425mm I tried to fit one but I have powergrid problems.


(Birk Ernaga) #334

could the stasis web & target painter drone be of use ? or they’ll get primaried and instantly wrecked ?


(Anderson Geten) #335

For which fit ?

don’t tell me “the X”. Link a correct fit.
Otherwise too many parameters

most of the time the EW drones are worthless.


(Birk Ernaga) #336

For burners in general. Except for a drone ship, it’s a minor part of the dps, so if it could give the extra ewar needed to get that edge over a target, it would be worth.


(Anderson Geten) #337

this makes no sense. each burner is different. each ship you use against it is different.


(Anderson Geten) #338

That’s where you are wrong.
Most burner have good rep, good resist, and hard to catch. That means you barely break them when you can tank them. so “minor DPS” actually means “consistent DPS”
When a rat heals 120 hp/s and you deal him 130 ehp/s, you are happy to bring 10 more dps.
That’s why burners are really efficient with all V skills, and yes gun spec V is very useful in that case (as well as rigging V, cap skills V, etc.)


(Mokey PYD) #339

So is there a single fit that can do this mission? Or do I have to swap fits between the Dragonflies and Mantis? I lost a 1b demeios to this mission, it’s the 1st time doing this mission, so I’m a little hesitant to do it again unless I I know me bringing in something expensive is going to do it.

And what is the bug exactly?

Sorry for the questions, I’m new to missions. But not new to the game.


(Anderson Geten) #340

what about you try and tell us ?

The bug is on sisi : web/painter can’t be used again after the burner dies, unless you log off while in station.
sisi is the test server, that’s where we go to test fits without fear of losing them due to errors.
Just to note, I did not lose a single fit in sisi, and I never used /moveme to escape death - only to escape bugs.
useful comands in sisi :
/moveme open a window, you click on of the links and you go to that desto. I think dodixie has L4 agents in the hub.
/booststandings put the faction (and agent and corp if you are docked in corp station) to 10. That allows you to spam decline missions with agent until you get the one interesting (had to use it 5 TIMES to get that fucking serpentis base. meanwhile I had tenths of other bases)


(Birk Ernaga) #341

You can either have a second damage source (drones here) in order to break regen, or you can use the ewar drone in order to provide your main weapon system better application to deal higher dps and break the regen.

Not only this debate have its answer changing between situation, you’ll have a similar one in other games.


(Qberty Thoth) #342

The bug on SiSi is fixed!!! You can now try on SiSi

So I tried the following fit :

[Muninn, AE2 MA2]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II

Acolyte II x5

Republic Fleet EMP M x8500
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x6400

But without the armor rig the tank is a little sketchy and leaves no room for error while with the Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II and Medium Nanobot Accelerator II (but I think you can just fit an Aux nano pump 2 and the metastasis adjuster 2 for a little less tank but more safety) you can breeze it with albeit a little less dps.
All in all I did the mission in 14 mins :smiley:

But I think for a little more range you can do it with 220mm although I do not know if there’s sufficient power for the MWD. Actually no there’s not enough powergrid for it…


(Anderson Geten) #343

why do you use 180s ?
and why do you have 2 a-type armor rep ?

Try the fit provided above.
(I will try it too)


(Qberty Thoth) #344

I wanted to try the 425mm but sadly I don’t have enough powergrid for that. :frowning_face:


(Anderson Geten) #345

ok I tried it.

definitely not enough tracking with HAC IV and 2 wbs + MA2 on the df. That means once you killed the mantis, you need to run back fast to the mobile depot or you are screwed. maybe it could with HAC V

with a aux nano pump 2 , my tank would not hold (A and B type reps). WIth OL the hardener it hold though, long enough to reach the mobile depot and switch the MWD to a web.

The df do scramble you !! mwd does not work. That means you must try to kill manta close to mobile depot

MWD is OverKill vs mantas. maybe try 10mn ? even with MWD on and sitting duck, the whole 3 mantis only removed 50% of my armor. This should never happen, but at least there is nothing to be afraid of (and one rep was enough to catch up)

Overall I bled some hull when I wanted to be sure if my tank was holding (it was not).
Basically the need to refit MWD <-> web kills the fit.
Maybe use 2 MA2 , EANM instead of 1 gyro, and keep the MWD all the time ?

pyfa tells me I was doing 90 applied ehp/s while with 2MA2+HAC5 I would go to 114 applied ehp/s
90 was enough to break it but very long.

thus, maybe

Summary
[Muninn, base guristas]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
'Thurifer' Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
50MN Digital Booster Microwarpdrive

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II


Acolyte II x5


Republic Fleet EMP M x8220
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M x5150

but in that case maybe the ashimmu or cerberus would behave better.


(Zarek Kree) #346

22km is only SOMEWHAT safe. The probability of getting wrecking shots is inversely proportional to the range. You can run the mission at 20-22km and remain untouched most of the time, but you’ll eventually get hit. With a polarized Garmur, you can only take 2 wrecking shots, so statistically you WILL lose the ship if you run it often enough. That’s why people recommend running it at 25km. I’ve taken wrecking shots all the way out to 27km but they’re so rare at those ranges, that it’s incredibly unlikely to take two in the same mission.

Not theory by the way…When I first started burners, I lost my Garmur at 22km. Better to get the range skills and implants necessary to get some more distance.


(Anderson Geten) #347

the garmur I orbit at 30km to kill the RR, then I switch to 26km while reloading to scourge.

I never got shot at this range (of course I stay for much less time at 26)

When orbiting at 26, I actually am 27 and my missiles range (with implant and all V) is 29 I think.