Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

guide

(Birk Ernaga) #348

Well I wasn’t using polarized launchers, and 22km was the minimum range. But when running it I didn’t get hit even once at this distance


(Anderson Geten) #349

if you’re not using polarized then you can stand a few hits.


(Qberty Thoth) #350

Here’s a video of me doing the Guristas anomic base on SiSi with the muninn :

As you can see it can breeze through the mission.

Although I did so many mistakes in this attempt -.- this is nowhere near my best time of 14 min. But still better than the cerberus.

To make the tank truly unbreakable I plugged in a set of low-grade asklepian.


(Zarek Kree) #351

Oh yeah, you didn’t list your fit. I thought you were using the standard polarized Garmur. If you’re not using a polarized fit, you can afford to take some hits. A polarized Garmur will allow you run the team burners substantially faster though - it just requires some range implants for the Jaguar.

Statistically you won’t take a hit every time you run it at that distance, but after several runs, you definitely will.


(Zarek Kree) #352

Since I’m re-working some of my burner fits to be more idiot proof, I thought I’d post a modified version of the Vigilant for Angel Base. It uses a dual armor rep and can parma-tank all 4 Drams simultaneously while remaining cap stable, so you can kill them at your leisure. I tried some other cap stable parma-tank fits without much success. You really need that web bonus on the Vigilant to get good hits.

I usually kill the Drams with guns and send the drones after the transport once it gets over 30km away. At that distance, the Drams don’t chase the drones. Typically, the transport dies just as I finish killing the last Dram. Then I just wait for the MTU to drag it back. I still keep a mobile depot and an MWD in cargo just in case I have to run the transport down.

It’s virtually impossible to lose the ship and it will easily survive a disconnect at any point in the mission. With my skills, it gets 687 EHP/s and 419 DPS (guns only). It usually takes me around 6 minutes from warp-in to warp-out. Cost is around 970m ISK.

[Vigilant, Angel Base for Dummies]

Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corelum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corelum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Reactive Armor Hardener
Centus C-Type Armor Explosive Hardener

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Thukker Large Cap Battery

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Anti-EM Pump II

Vespa II x5


(Qberty Thoth) #353

Oh I see it now on live server one 425mm needs less powergrid than on SiSi so I might be able to do it and put more damage, I was wondering why you insisted on the 425mm well that’s the answer…
One con though it’s friggin expensive 2.1B for the fit !!! That’s 7 vigilants using Chainsaw’s fit but it’s way more forgiving (well if you have the implants you’re pretty much unkillable) and has nearly the same completion time (I bet if you ace the piloting and have good luck i.e more smashing/penetrating shots you can complete it in 11-12 mins).
Oh well I will stick with the cerberus for 1 or 2 weeks before moving on the Muninn…


(Anderson Geten) #354

I really don’t like those fits where you take two days to kill one single burner.
Yet, with only one rep :

capstable tankstable
[Vigilant, *Angel Base for Dummies]
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Reactive Armor Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Corpum B-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpus X-Type Armor Explosive Hardener

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery

Heavy Electron Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II
Heavy Electron Blaster II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II

Vespa II x5

Void M x2000

(the dps you take in base angel is 220/0/80/384 )
BTW You should use AM in that fit because dual web is really low.

sure you can kill the burners, but in the same time I do three or four of those. I need less than 4:30 to take first gate, drop mtu+depot, kill burners, refit, take back loot+mtu+depot, kill the transport. That means something like 30s per burner. On several occasions I made this below 3:50 - including looting and moving+killing transport. Without gun implant nor booster(I don’t consider the time when I use booster).
What it means isyou don’t need cap stable.
you just need cap for ± 2min, and rep for 2 bruners, ehp for (2+1)*30s = 90s of burner DPS. Then you run out of ehp by the time the second burner dies, and you rung out of cap by the time the 4th dies, but you don’t care.
Don’t forget you should OL to do that
Of course I have some margin, and my fit kill the burners without OL, not reaching 0% cap nor 0%ehp remaining (I went as low as 20% armor I think and 30% cap

What I mean is, capstable fits are a bad idea.
You CAN do it for fun, but this is stupid to run them.
You gimp your DPS, your fit cost more expensive and brings you less isks : ie they make you lose isks.


(Ploing) #355

have played today a bit with a muninn in lazymode.

Summary

[Muninn, Lazymode]
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Centum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Reactive Armor Hardener
Centus B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner

425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II
425mm AutoCannon II

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Projectile Burst Aerator II

Acolyte II x5

Republic Fleet EMP M x5100

is able to kill it in 14 -15 mins constantly, depending on your skills and imps.
capstable, no oh on reps and no refit in space minimize the rate of failures.

various mods can also be downgraded to cheaper ones.


(Qberty Thoth) #356

Ok so I also tested the 425 mm fit albeit with an ancillary current router 2 in place of the projectile ambit extension 2 to compensate for the lack of powergrid.
Here’s the result :

Despite my crappy piloting skills (please forgive me), I managed to shave off 2 minutes compared to the previous video. Not bad but someone better than me can do better (I still wonder how I managed to get 14 min) …


(Ploing) #357

try running it with 2 webs and a ab without refiting. you lost most time during refit and sticking at the depot.

you can also close the gap with the df which leds to faster killtimes.

Lazymode Testrun


(Zarek Kree) #358

LOL…To each their own Anderson. What I will say is that there’s been extensive interest for the cap stable fits because of the safety they offer - safety from mistakes and from disconnects (for people who don’t have reliable connections). Newcomers to burners are also frequently more attracted to them as well until they learn the ropes.

They also cater to a play style that may be different than yours. I most commonly run burners from my laptop while watching TV or reading. Spending an extra couple of minutes in a mission without having to focus my attention on it is absolutely worth it to me. Is it efficient from an isk/hr standpoint? Nope. But it’s time I wouldn’t otherwise be playing if I were running the kind of highly efficient fits you prefer because of the focus they require. In the past I’ve enjoyed trying to maximize my isk/hr from burners, but now they’re simply the way I fund other EVE activities, so running them in the background works for me. Those are my choices - others make different choices and that’s okay too.

If your intent is to maximize isk/hr, the kind of high efficiency fits you advocate are absolutely the only way to go. But there are also other perfectly valid play styles that reasonable people can allow for.

Don’t forget that there are plenty of people who think running PVE missions (burner or otherwise) in a PVP game is “stupid” as well. They’re as equally wrong. You’ve had some really excellent input on this burner thread - just allow for people who may run them differently than you.


(Qberty Thoth) #359

Nice run indeed :slight_smile:, but the tank for taking on the 3 dragonflies at once is too sketchy for my taste that’s why I needed the auxiliary nano pump 2 (and the implants), it leaves more room for mistakes and low damaging grazing shots.


(Ploing) #360

i just wanted to point out that u have less hazzle without depot and sticking with the ab. :wink:


(Anderson Geten) #361

THAT is exactly why I said it is a stupid concept. People who tend to learn with “cap stable” fit later on don’t try to improve. Because they were told “cap stable is important” while it is not.

I understand and agree that with ISP issues you NEED to be able to survive a D/C. But in that case, don’t do burners. nobody is forcing you to make burners rather than other L4s in a marauder.
If you want to be safe, then do something else than burners.

And I’m pretty sure your fit do have more than 6:30 to warp in and kill the burners. Just missing one web already adds 2 min. you also have almost half DPS. You are closer to DOUBLE time to make burners.
I put your fit and mine in pyfa (rat is 11m sig orbiting at 3500m, 1160 m/s, res are 35/48/61/76). You are applying 120-90 = 30 DPS after rep, while I am applying 310-90=220 DPS after rep to the rat. I need 20s to chew through the rat 4k hps after it is webbed, you need 2 minutes per rat. total I need <8min including warping docking talking agent etc., just to kill the 4 burners you need more.

What I’m saying is, the “capstable fits” for base burner cost a lot more and net you LESS than regular L4s. If you want security, don’t run burners. Unless guristas or blood agent because they are pretty safe with non-OL fits, as well as anomic teams. but base are just not worth it. Even on my fast builds, they often are not worth it - I prefer to run zazz and sell that card 10M(+bounty+reward) for 3min a run, or anire for 8Mloot+10M bounty (+reward) for 4min a run…


(Qberty Thoth) #362

Well refitting with the depot is not a big issue as the time needed to kill the 3rd mantis is almost equal to 1 min plus with drifting away from the antero means the next wave will have a travel time of about 15+ sec that’s enough time to refit.

But now with the profitability of the mission : each time you complete the mission you earn about 14k lp and 5M isk that’s about 25M for SOE (not counting in the loot as it is mostly faction ammo) with the fit costing about 2.1B you need about 84 missions to break even that’s about 20H of running this Anomic Base. That’s alot compared to the cerberus needing 1B and the other anomics.


(Ploing) #363

thats true, but keep in mind that most mods can shared with other fits.


(Qberty Thoth) #364

Ok thankfully I have some spare modules at Lanngisi on live server and got my Muninn almost for free, I will run this mission from now on to see what the loot is about, so far from my 50ish runs with the cerberus I mostly got faction ammo (but I got 1 Gila BPC once). And will see if destroying the carrier will yield more loot (hopefully I think I can break its tank). Anyone got more infos on the carrier? I think it has 50% omni resist and something like 180hp/s shield regen and 15M hit points. I will try to kill it on SiSi maybe it can drop faction loot like hopefully faction dread but I don’t get my hopes up… Actually no I tested on SiSi and 1 muninn can’t break the tank of the carrier.


(Anderson Geten) #365

I think it’s 40k hp/s max rep.


(Qberty Thoth) #366

WOW indeed I’m nowhere close to inflicting that much damage :^) .

On another note, I think we should add the Muninn fit to the burner guide for those who want to run it since it can breeze it in absolute safety (hell on live server I survived a disconnect) in about 18 min tops (better if you are good).


(Anderson Geten) #367

I think the vigilant would do better.

for comparison sake, one vigilant web is better than three munin webs, and if you use fed nav webs you can catch mantis easily.
not sure if rail or electron would be the way to go though.