Do you have the slightest idea how the Mandate actually formed?
Have you even read the history books in your much vaunted educational facilities?
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And just to put this out here before Diana claims I’ve no idea what I’m talking about: In order to maintain a hold on Luminaire, the State would need to maintain a hold on Algogille, which can be reinforced from three different directions that aren’t Luminaire. By contrast, if the Federation wants to cut off the State completely, not only is Kassigainen open to assault from two directions, Yashunen a third, and Tennen a fourth, all of which are held by the Federation, but Sivala forms a natural choke point.
If that were to fall, the State couldn’t get through at all with subcapitals. Capital-wise, if Sivala falls, the only avenue to advance toward Luminaire for the State would by by jumping from the “Gallente Border Zone” constellation into Iivinen, which telegraphs the move pretty shamelessly.
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If you show me a historic book about “Galdari Mandate”…
Otherwise - don’t bother me.
Are you actually this dumb? I’m obviously talking about the circumstances around the forming of the Ammatar Mandate, the area of space I assumed you were referencing.
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Ahh, I see. Another typical minmatar “conversationalist”. When they fail to understand something, they blame others in being dumb.
Expected from you.
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Heh that was a different situation entirely. The other points there, well I see similarities between us. You don’t, that’s fine. I don’t see a need to try and change your mind, I think if you actually look at what tyrel, Claudia, myself, and the others of my corp do you might see thing a little different, at least slightly.
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I probably should. But I usually try to avoid meddling with other people business. That’s not peculiar to me to inquire what exactly Minmatar are doing, I make most of my judgements from people who “shove” it out. And what I see? I see Kalaratiri, I see Arrendis, Mizhara. What I see disgusts me, that’s why in the first place I look for differences, not for similarities. I want to be like Tibus Heth, I want to be like Mathias Sobaseki. And I don’t want to have anything in common with people like Kalaratiri, Arrendis, Mizhara, etc.
What you can see is the expression of my disgust of their behavior.
Still in StaPro ya know…
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This is a mistake. One can never learn the whole truth by listening only to the loudest voices.
And on another note, it’s pretty brazen to cast judgement on an entire people and state your people would do better when yours has never been in that same situation! Of course you havn’t been because most of your history was spent serving as part of the Federation you now despise until you broke away. And did a number of Caldari at the time not choose to remain in the Federation? They just never got their own mandate. Interestingly our histories line up a bit more then it first appears.
In any event, I’m having trouble keeping up with the point of this discussion. Is it that the Caldari will definitely retake their homeworld? I don’t know, as I understand it your people abandoned it for a calculated reason and most people seem oddly content with the current situation. It’s right strange how we can be at “war” in the lowsec zones and meanwhile at least on your end people from both nations are living almost side by side on Caldari Prime…
I imagine either all hell will break loose without the Legion there to keep order and the war will promptly resume properly as both sides try to seize control of the planet, or somebody, probably on Caldari Prime itself, comes in with another company to fix things, or creates one from the ground up.
A mixed Caldari/Gallente company made up of inhabitants of Caldari Prime itself, maybe? Unlikely, I know, but it’d be interesting.
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Our people abandoned it because we were tiny against enormous Federation. There were no chance to defend one planet at that time and planetary bombardments from the Federation were causing too many casualties among the civilians on the planet - they could just bomb it anytime they wanted, considering they had their military bases in the system. Holding planets ouside from Luminaire secured our civilians from gallentean atrocities.
Now? Now our army is the most capable among all four Empires. We aren’t this tiny stubborn nation that we were 200 years ago. Our ideals of meritocracy, working for common good and competitiveness lifted us to the top - and now we can liberate Caldari Prime. As it was shown by Tibus Heth in YC110. We even placed a titan on the orbit to prevent gallenteans from bombarding us.
What we didn’t put into calculation - is that gallente were going to violate the treaty and sneakly sent their troops on the planet, beginning second invasion in YC115. This time, however, we didn’t let them. More than half of the planet was saved from gallentean invasion and even their fleet that attacked our titan was destroyed. It wasn’t neither our victory, nor theirs. And currently we have a truce, signed by the coward Reppola… who crawled to Gallentean senate like a worm, instead of fighting for our planet like Heth.
As for the living side by side… it was shown earlier that we cannot. Even during Gallente occupation of Caldari Prime - right before the war has started, gallente began attacking Caldari people on the planet all over, monuments were defaced, archeological sites destroyed, people on streets attacked just for being Caldari. And when Caldari protested, what did Federal police do? Beat them. And it was actually Gallente president who separated people by nationality on Caldari Prime, creating separate districts for Gallente and Caldari.
So much for living side by side…
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Technically, that would be living side by side…
Sorry…
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Okay. You share a border with Amarr Empire? You’re living side by side as well 
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Unfortunately yes, as I look out at the star in Okkamon.
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The difference is our border isn’t shared on a single planet. It’s just oddly harmonious for two people at war. In any event, it seems the State and it’s Megas have no desire to push this any further right now, regardless of the strength of the Caldari military. The absence of the Legion probably won’t change anything unless it causes some kind of major incident on the planet.
Probably.
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So, Isha? Firstly, the State and Federation (like the Republic and Empire) are in a state of limited war.
Also, Caldari Prime was under Gallente rule for basically the last two hundred years. There were still some Caldari around (and there are some on other planets, too; apparently the Gallente don’t like to be reminded of that all that much for some reason), but living under Federal rule. In a sense, the State is the newcomer there.
While a lot of Patriot supporters (like Ms. Kim) chafe at the idea of sharing “Home,” it seems pretty widely accepted at this point that retaking it completely would require far more resources and bloodshed, and the strategic situation’s (to put it mildly) disadvantageous. Likewise, it seems to be understood by the Federation that the Caldari are pretty dug in and may very well fight to the death rather than be forced to leave their homeworld again.
Then there’s the toll the fighting’s already taken on the planet. There was fighting all over that world when the Federation tried to retake it, but the single largest scar is the crashed Leviathan wreck (still burning, last I checked) in the Kaalakiota Peaks: a symbol of many different things, most of them pretty sobering.
What would it be next time? Another titan? Two? A carrier squadron? (That’d be ironic.) Maybe someone on one side or the other would actually fire a doomsday weapon on the planet, next time, rendering the Caldari Home-less for the foreseeable future?
The Federation faces similar questions-- the Gallente homeworld shares the same system. They might be a little less attached, but the prospect of a desperate act by some Caldari Leviathan commander’s still not at all a happy one.
It’d be a serious exaggeration to say that either side’s probably really happy with how things worked out, but, right now, it beats the alternative. As in the Empire, there are those who argue for all-out war, but, mostly those voices are pretty muted for now.
And speaking for myself, it seems like that’s probably for the best.
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That was the point, yes. That enough people seem content with the current situation that it’s unlikely to change unless something extreme happens.
As an aside, can I just say that the concern for the people on that planet from both sides is rather touching?
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Ah-- sorry. It was mostly the “oddly” that caught my attention, is all. Usually that word implies that a thing doesn’t quite make sense. What I mostly meant, is that it does. The situation’s a little uncomfortable, but the two homeworlds being in one system was a little uncomfortable to begin with.
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I imagine that to be a matter of perspective. No matter how many times the nature of the lowsec conflict is explained to me I will always find it strange how two nations can be at “limited war” in one part of the galaxy and be curteous neighbors in another. But I do understand how it works.
As an aside, I will never get into politics.
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You’re forgetting the diplomatic cost as well, Arrendis. The State has maintained throughout its existence that our military is defensive in nature and that we have no desire to take Federal territory. Our fight is not aggressive, it has always been defensive in nature.
Once you start down the slippery slope of ‘needing to secure breathing room’ or ‘needing to secure our flanks and protect lines of supply’ then you are basically saying that your defensive commitment is a lie. At that point we’d be no better than the Federation - and our word would be without value in the interstellar community.
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