Since when was it a GM being scammed? This thing is taking on a life of its own now.
Huh? Goons have been doing that for years. Have you seen the MER? NPC Bounties my ass, they are scamming CCP for trillions of ISK every month. I just donât get why this is a big deal now that that poor sod here does it for a measly 4bn.
1 Like
I love him already, if he sometimes kicks scammers and other baddies around from time to time I find it funny that those who got a boot donât like it when they get crunched, amusing.
1 Like
EDIT: Looks like I might be somewhat wrong. It seems likely now that the scam may have involved an exploit which changes everything now.
Original Post:
We are hardening the â â â â up. The problem here is the possibility that the GM might be misapplying the rules and doesnât realize it. Iâm going to assume itâs just a simple case of ignorance because I canât assume that the GM is willfully misapplying rules without evidence to back it up.
It is perfectly legal to scam someone via the window trade and always has been allowed since the introduction of the window trade feature. There are clear limitations imposed on what scams are allowed and which scams are not allowed. We are not allowed to scam if the scam involves recruitment rewards, trades via the Character Bazaar forum, character impersonation of anyone or any corp, and a few other things. None of which include window trading in regards to prohibitions so long as the window trade does not involve any one of the above mentioned restrictions.
This is something every scammer has known for years. If window trade scams have not been allowed and none of this has been made publicly clear then there will be a â â â â storm at the undock of Jita 4-4.
If that was the case, then that would explain a lot but then that goes counter to the original explanation by the GM regarding agreements. If it was about an exploit, which are illegal to use as we all know, why didnât the GM bring that up and instead used the recruitment reward policy as a reference?
I would rather believe that the scammer was punished for using an exploit that was not intended to be part of any scam than to believe that CCP made a change in what constitutes as a permissible scam.
1 Like
Not exactly. A work around to that would be to âaccidentallyâ close the trade window and then reopen it but with a slight change in the trade and then you have to hope that the person on the other end doesnât double check before hitting âAcceptâ again. It is a near-full-proof system. I say near because only the most impatient players would neglect to double check the trade window in their haste.
2 Likes
Maybe I missed it somewhere in this ridiculous thread, but what part of this was an Exploit?
Changing the price in a Trade Window is a time honored scam.
- Scammer sends PM to the victim, telling them how much they will pay for whatever the victim has.
- Victim agrees to price, and starts salivating visibly at the thought of having so much money for their goods
- Scammer opens a Trade Window, and posts that huge amount in the window. While preparing a 2nd offer at a drastically reduced price (some scammers go from offering Billions to Millions, or even Billions to 1 isk)
- Victim sees this amount being offered, then looks to their inventory so they can drop in the item in question
- Victim drops the item, then mouses down to the Accept button
- Once the item has dropped, but before the victim clicks Accept, the scammer presses Enter in order to change the price, and then clicks Accept.
- Victim clicks Accept, causing the deal to conclude. Scammer receives item, and Victim receives reduced rate (or maybe just 1 isk).
This happens ALL THE TIME. Which is why anyone who knows better, knows not to deal in high value items through Trade Windows.
Now youâre telling me that @ISD and @CCP in general will forcibly hold you to your promised price, even if you donât have that much in your wallet? Is this new Magic of Friendship policy going to extend to the Contract scams whereby someone says âThis is 100 PLEXâ and itâs really just 1 PLEX? Are you going to suck 99 PLEX from their account? Or invent 99 PLEX if they donât have that much?
This all seems remarkably stupid. And the only rationale I can come up with, is that the Victim happens to be friends with a certain Senior GM, and called in a favor.
4 Likes
I told you rainbow witcher, I was the wrong Dori to mess with. Even tho you failed to scam me, the vendetta was started.
I dont forget so fast, as you have learned⌠hope you think long and hard about what you have done. I really hope they get your main <3
see ya around 
I fixed that for you. Hope you like it.
No⌠No, I had it right the first time.
If you fall for an âoopsâ price change, then you need parental supervision while you play.
4 Likes
Ah I see. Never mind. I completely forgot that the change can be made without restarting the window. Although the check mark doesnât seem visible enough when I tried it with my alts. It does disappear when someone makes the change. But anyone making a trade in haste can miss it.
The exploit is still a problem though if what everyone else says is true.
PS: I guess the current workaround is for the victim to at least wait a moment before hitting accept just to see if the window status changes if lag is still playing a factor here.
^ this
Victim saw Billion, then went for the item, and tried to click Accept once they dropped it in. Scammer changes the price to Millions in the time between the item dropping, and the victim hitting Accept. As fas as any logs would show, the Victim agreed to trade that item for that new price.
And yet somehow a GM decided to punish the scammer for it.
Others have brought up an issue of an old exploit that involves lag and with the current situation with how the servers are right now, this seems like a perfect time for someone to punish a player for doing something that is considered perfectly legal to do. What do you think?
OP says this took place in Jita. Last I heard, Jita had its own dedicated hardware. So no matter how big of a battle may be raging somewhere in space, Jita runs as well as Jita can. If there is lag in Jita, itâs b/c CCP needs to get better hardware or something.
Punishing someone b/c the hardware is outdated is a pretty terrible idea. And especially this form of punishment. This basically sets a precedent; that if you cry loud enough, CCP will make sure that you get paid whatever amount you were promised by a scammer. Theyâve basically just destroyed the âartâ of scamming each other.
Thatâs why I called this the Magic of Friendship policy. Magically creating ISK that didnât exist in the scammerâs wallet, to pay off the crybaby victim so they feel better and everyone can be friends again.
1 Like
I see what you mean. But I donât think such âMagic of Friendshipâ policy will be able to extend past the trade window if that were the case. But you are right that it does set a precedent and that concerns me more. I would hate to see such a thing creep into other aspects of scamming that are currently considered legal to do.
What is to stop someone from using a GM to reverse a contract that was concluded already despite the red flags? What about corporations that commit recruitment scams? Not the recruiting reward type, but the part where you join a corp that promises access to null-sec and wormholes and all that jazz if you only pay a small fee to join only to get you trapped in the middle of nowhere with nothing in return.
AnywaysâŚ
Honestly I think the trade window needs to go. Itâs outdated and I donât use it much anymore. I prefer contracts where you can at least see everything and the only thing working against you is time if the contract is posted to the public like you see in Jita which is where the fun begins.
You missed the part where the GM gave the person who was scammed 4 billion isk and set the OPs alt wallet to -4 billion isk. OP biomassed the char over the negative balance and it wasnât a high sp character, so im not sure how effective the punishment was.
My take away from this whole thing is the GM injecting isk into the game.
(Oh you did notice, just noticed your most recent post 2 above this one. 
)
1 Like
It is effectively injecting ISK into the economy if the scammer didnât even have 4 billion in the first place.
EDIT: If the scam was the other way around (example: victim pays 4 billion) then I would understand the reversal but even then weâre talking about a window trade scam.
2 Likes
If theyâre going to âtake your word for itâ on scam pricing⌠There are lots of scam contracts out there titled â100 PLEXâ and only offering 1. If theyâre going to suck the promised amount out of the scammerâs wallet or inventory, or magically invent them if they arenât there to be had, then theyâre only making things worse in the long run.
Not to get entirely off topic, but I get really irritated at how random they can be with deciding what counts as an Exploit, and what counts as Creativity. I remember a Wormhole alliance set up somewhere, where they found out the Wormhole effects reduced Optimal range. And if you further dampened yourself, you could eventually have negative Optimal range, breaking the game math, and turning it into unlimited Optimal range. They were able to Dampen each other, and sit 250km away from targets, hitting them with Blasters for max damage. And CCP said âgood job getting creativeâ. They Broke The Game Math⌠if that isnât an Exploit, I donât know what is. But they were congratulated for their efforts.
And hereâs this guy swapping some digits in a Trade Window, and thatâs a âExploitâ now?
1 Like
YIKES!
First off, Iâm impressed by the creative math that wormhole alliance used but still that does clearly sound like an exploit if the math was never intended to work like that. And yeah, it is clearly hypocritical to see the opposite reaction when a window trade happens. What gives? Do they have some magic eight ball they use to decide what action should be taken?
1 Like