CCP should seriously consider removing Local from Null

I didn’t ever say that, and I’m quite fine with cloaky campers in the game as they are now. I’d prefer to keep cloakies as they are and keep local as it is with them.

I was responding to your bizzare opinion that you couldn’t interdict resource generation any other way. Of course you can, and it should be more effective to produce actual visible superiority, than merely the threat of a temporary period of grid superiority against 1 pilot. one thing is potentially a bluff, where as the other thing is completely tangible and it should be more effective.

The interaction is fear and it works just fine. I do not care if they are actually afk, and I do not care how long they are afk for.

Even if I just refit to a durable bait ship, I’m still earning less resources and if I’m forced to do it long enough, I will effectively have lost a ships worth anyway.

It’s not “bizarre”. It is the very reason why CCP has said they left AFK cloaking as a viable tactic in the game. I never said it was the only way - clearly you can raise a full-scale war fleet and evict them from that space. But cloaky camping is one of the few ways you can mess with a rival in a practical manner in a game with perfect intel and when safety in invulnerable stations is only a few seconds away.

You did in fact say that. It is there in your post.

In any case, CCP is addressing the invulnerable stations, and should they go further and make citadel invulnerabilities and timers less oppressive, then you’ll have another choice about what you could do.

All discussions of cloaky camping (and ALL discussions of local chat in null always devolve to cloaky camping) take place without the context of history.

Cloaky camping evolved as a counter to the Space upgrade system CCP introduced in Dominion in 2009. Before that, anomalies and sigs were just randomly spawning sites across null sec, asteroid belts were much more popular for ‘ratting’ back then, with people spending hours ‘conditioning’ belts to have the npcs spawn in a sustainable way.

All of a sudden, null residents could spawn anomalies (and to a lesser extent, actual cosmic signatures) on demand in their systems. Belt ratting basically disappeared as ratters discovered that anoms were better in every way. Lots of isk started coming out of literally nowhere and people flocked to the new profession of anomaly farming.

Now people knew where there would be clusters of PVE fit ships, and the hunting ramped up way past what it had been pre-dominion when you’d have random guys search beltas for PVE ships to kill. An off shoot of that was that folks started hanging around in popular ratting systems cloaked up, which either generated kills or dampened pve activity as people docked up or left for other systems.

It was kind of ironic IMO, people wanted the upgrade system so null would be more ‘livable’ but never once thought that other players would use that same upgrade system (+ the ability to cloak indefinitely) as a strategic tool against them. I noticed early on that some anomaly farmers quickly became the most vocal anti-cloakers on the forums, because they could not accept that people would find an actual set of counters to their isk making.

I say some because I am an anom farmer and yet I don’t complain about cloaky campers of anything else, I know that those counters are all a part of the game and that they serve to regulate how much isk we can spew into the economy (well, until CCP buffed carriers that is lol).

Personally I just figured out a counter to their counter and kept on trucking.

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CCP should seriously consider removing Local from Null

They have.

\thread

Remove hotdropping from the game and you can remove local. If you remove local and not hotdropping then nobody will ever bother to PVE or mine and the game with lose half it’s players overnight, and then the rest not long after because there is nothing left to kill or buy.

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It really is hilarious how OP thinks anybody will listen to him with the obnoxious and asocial behaviour he has, and unstopping snarky tone. If he really wants a chance of changing the game, he needs to change himself first, because anybody from CCP would just look at him, and think, “Wow, this is the most entitled person on the planet.”

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I vote for removal of local chat in all of eve! We don’t need this chat!

It’s hilarious that you make the same sort of post that I respond to with a snarky tone, but whine about said snarky tone. I guess what’s good for the goose is not good for the gander? I guess you feel entitled to be snarky but not receive snark in response. :rofl:

There is nothing snarky about my post, just telling you directly that you are a very unlikable person, and thus the chance anybody will take you seriously is very small.

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So do you have anything to contribute to the topic?

Beyond tips on how to help you better convince CCP and the community to implement your proposed changes, not really.

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Okay. Take care. :sunglasses:

You can’t help people like that, the ‘activist’ type doesn’t believe there can be anything wrong with how they think. In fact, letting them talk is good, if you are on the other side of an issue, just let them turn everyone off of what they want, they do the work for you lol.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259537655_The_ironic_impact_of_activists_Negative_stereotypes_reduce_social_change_influence

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Or, y’know, you could dispense with ad homs and actually post an argument. Just a thought. :rofl:

D-scan doesn’t have friend or foe identification, only local and grid do. IMO that is just begging for an active d-scan scraper and an active hull type/name location broadcaster to be made default alliance tools, ie for intel botting to reach new heights, and for intel botting to actually be seriously advantageous instead of almost pointless for personal safety.

I also think your fundamental concern, that nullsec makes too much money, would be best addressed by making sure nullsec makes the right amount of money, instead of making intel more difficult and thus increasing the relative worth of botted intel.

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Removing local, if anything, hurts hunter/killers more than it hurts any ratters in a competent alliance, for three simple reasons:

  1. It becomes much harder for the HK to determine if a system is worth your time to scan down a target and tackle it. Your HK has to stop in every system, create a safe, decloak, drop probes, recloak, and scan the system before he can move on, which leads to wasted time and a greater chance that a potential target docks up.
  1. It becomes much harder for the HK / FC to weigh the risk/reward ratio if he wants to see if there’s a large number of active, docked players in a given constellation/region. The greater the number of players, the greater the risk of Triage being dropped, let alone hostile DPS carriers/supercarriers. If you cannot accurately determine how many hostiles are in a given area, you will hunt more defensively and drop on fewer people.
  1. In-game intel channels are still a thing, and will continue to be used. Instead of glancing at local, you’ll glance at your other screen (or use other methods that are not cache scraping) or your staggered window to look at the name of the hostile that just decloaked on the gate. One autolink later, and the entire region knows that Derpy McDerpface just entered VFK in a Claw ten seconds ago. Of course, that’s assuming that you even bother given how difficult and how much effort it now requires for hunters to find targets.

Home Field Advantage compromise idea:

Sov holder is invisible-on-member-list-unless-they-chat (like wormholes). All else are visible. Attackers thus forced to bring scouts. To balance, make structures & sov changes a bit quicker to blow up / take over.

Same with Low Sec Factional Warfare. if a Gallente Militia pilot flies into a Caldari system, the CalMil pilots will not show in chat unless they talk. Again, to compensate, the attackers (offensive plexers) get buffed.

Also affects Citadel Guest Lists too.

These changes would make attackers paranoid. Weapons will be more effective, but just like in Wormhole Space there’d be no way to tell if the target system is empty, or if it is actually filled with 200 docked or cloaked players who know you’re coming (“ITS A TRAP”).

EDIT: The above would make VNI ratting even safer. So… what if we made it so CovOps ships don’t show up in Local Chat anywhere? Then they’d become the premier ratter hunters :o


Disclaimer: I daytrip WHs out of Lowsec and do not live in Null but I read a lot about it ツ

Or you know… consider the advantage of conveniently reshipping to whatever is the perfect counter for the enemy already a home field advantage.
Along with actually having control over the system upgrades.
And the rich resources.

Null does not have to have an advantage in literally every single area, this is where we have gotten the current issue where CCP have given Null advantages in every aspect of the game, and those advantages have a multiplicative effect on the power of Null.
There is nothing wrong with other areas including highsec being equal in game mechanics in some areas.

So yeah, lets stop with this ‘Home field advantage needed crap’

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Made some edits to my last post to address effects of “sov holder invisible” on Low-Sec Factional Warfare (my original home); also thought that maybe the counter to “totally safe nullsec belt ratting” could be making CovOps ships completely 100% invisible from local chat (even in highsec). I’ve never really understood why Covert Ops vessels broadcast their presence in Local.

Actually, now that I think about it, that might be the solution by itself - making specific ship classes able to bypass Local Chat either on their own or just when Cloak is engaged.

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