This is EVE why are they not fit for PVP?
Because they took a wrong turn in the app store.
You are twisting reality to claim that one case where you canāt win , is actually a win. Itās not.
So you previous post was a nonsense, thanks.
No they donāt. This is complete nonsense. What they choose is, if they take the engagement or not ; not the terms of the engagement.
I think you are confusing something stupid. THE ADVANTAGES ARE NEVER IN FAVOR OF THE BAITED.
If it was the case, the baiter would not commit.
Thatās just basic logic. Your whole post is ā ā ā ā .
morale of the story : you need to insult people to feel human.
Because PVE requires to be PVE fit.
Of course, and again, not related to what I meant.
I donāt disagree with you about that, but that is a separate point to the one I was making (as sloppy as my wording was as a snide, off hand comment).
Sure. Maybe we understand something different by ānatureā.
People who donāt want to pvp, wonāt pvp no matter what changes CCP introduce to encourage them to. If they donāt want to pvp, they wonāt (and that is perfectly fine, because not everyone wants to pvp and the game should cater to those people just as much as it caters to pvp).
So calling for the āone more nerfā that is based on getting more people to engage suspects and outlaws will only ever be met by calls for āone more nerfā because there will always be people who donāt want to pvp (and the carebears among them will always feel victimised and ask for more nerfs).
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Thereās a lot of rageful blah-blahs in there, but Iāll try to address what I can actually understand:
Yes, they do choose the terms of the engagement. Maybe not fully, as they canāt decide on which ship and gear their opponent will use, but they choose everything else, like their own ship and setup, the presence of friends/allies, and even the location. At the very least, they get to choose more factors than the suspect does.
They absolutely can be. The only reason why you think this way is because you approach every single confrontation from a victim/griefer perspective. But the person being baited can, in fact, be the person doing the baiting. Itās just not something youāve ever experienced personally, and is out of your frame of reference.
lolno
This is PVP only game.
Hereās what I do:
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scan down ship or mtu with cloaky alt.
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warp main to the mission, park alt outside the mission as scout.
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enter mission in small ship with salvager (to pretend to be salvaging first which helps them think Iām not baiting them) with ship and cargo scanner so I know exactly the value of the ship, its lowest resists and what to expect. Check local for corpmates or known pvpers.
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I start doing my āfishingā, either salvage and then loot after a while or take out their mtu. If they DO shoot me I wait till Iām in low armor (Iām actually hull tanked) before I warp out to make it seem as if I panicked and almost messed up. (If you warp instantly thereās a higher chance they will run).
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Iām doing this while my alt is keeping an eye on the mission entrance so unless someone is coming in in a cloaker Iāll know. And if a cloaker does come in and uses the gate Iāll also know.
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switch ship, warp back, enter mission, tackle, neut and nuke. Open convo for ransom attempt. All while keeping an eye on dscan, local and the alt to see if trouble is coming.
This scenario is completely controlled, I hold all the cards and keep an eye on all the variables. If one of the variables even reeks of trouble I donāt commit or Iāll break off. This means my risk is extremely low unless there is some highly capable and informed pilot waiting for me to counter me. This has never happened.
The only options the target has is to not aggress or if aggressed warp off immediately. Any other options like being adequately PvP fit or bringing in help instantly result in me breaking off.
Technically he has options, realistically he doesnāt. This isnāt the only form of baiting of course, and other types will carry more risk, but itās probably the most obvious one.
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CCP should just permaban anyone who ganks.
Shoot one person in Highsec and BAN.
Thatās a step in the right direction.
If it were me, by the time you came back, Iād have a completely different setup.
Iād know because if you left my alt would see it and if youād use a depot my alt would Dscan it. The only option you really have is to have cloakers already in the mission before I even get there for the first time.
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You wouldāve seen the depot when you scanned me initially, along with a bunch of āNPC loot.ā Or it might be out in space before you even get to to me the first time.
Granted you might be paranoid to not engage at any of those points, but I doubt it. Iād pretend to be an idiot right up to the last second, mind games and everything. Lock you, unlock you, lock you, unlock you. Approach you, panic a little, and stop. Shoot my own wreck or two.
You think I havenāt killed people like this before? :V
You might be the best baiter to ever exist and can see all of this coming, I donāt know. Plenty of them arenāt that good though.
when Iām dscanning on the alt, which is parked right outside your mission I have obviously chosen a non-wreck Dscan filter and set to 0.5 AU. If you had a depot Iād know, if you dropped a depot after the main warped out Iād also know. Depots have 60 second online timer and all Iām doing at that moment is warp out, switch ship and warp back which takes very little effort. I can easily Dscan several times on the alt to make sure shenanigans donāt happen, thatās like Dscan 101.
You wonāt be able to switch ship or fit without me knowing. Again really the only option you have is to set a trap with cloakers already in mission.
You wouldnāt know for sure that I did or didnāt. Youād have to commit to scanning me again, and if you tried to do that, Iād just leave because my initiative would be lost. At that point, Iād be playing your greed against you, because youād be tempted to go for it as youād think that Iām an idiot and thereās no way it could be a counter-trap based on how stupidly and not confidently I acted before.
Like I said, you could be that good to see it all coming, but most people arenāt.
You clearly have no idea about this, do you.
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Iām just going by the process you laid out. Unless youāre leaving something out of the equation here, you would be forced to make a choice on whether to engage me or not after leaving the first time, based on whether or not you think I changed my fit during the time you were gone.
Also, I could similarly opt to switch my ship/setup in the station, nullifying your intel on me. You would have to perform another scan, and if I saw you doing it, Iād bug out. I could even ācome backā a few times with the same setup to condition you to think that Iām not changing anything.
Which part(s) do you disagree with?
Oh and by the way, when I used these tactics to kill DED site thieves/baiters (I never ran missions), I absolutely did have a friend or an alt cloaked on the field in many instances.
if you leave the mission Iāll know
if you drop a depot Iāll know
And as said earlier:
Really the only option you have to switch fits is having an orca cloaked in your mission where you can switch fit. But that falls under ācloakies already in missionā and even then, switching fits using an orca you first have to approach anyway and then switch fits, thereād be a high chance Iād scan it.
Yes, you would break off. But not every person would break off. If the mind games are played well enough, most people would commit. At the very least, it would be a non-starter, and neither of us would lose anything. At best (for me), Iād get a kill, unless you manage to outfight my new setup.
All this does is show that there is viable counter-play, and that the suspect baiter doesnāt fully control the terms of the engagement. Because bugging out before the engagement isnāt the same the same thing as controlling all of its terms.
Finally, the fact that I could have backup already on-field (or backup that intercepts you at the gate by warping in at the same time) means that youāre actually at an inherent disadvantage during the entire encounter. Just because carebears donāt put up this kind of resistance doesnāt change this fact.
Thatās the baiterās choice, if they choose poorly that is still on them not on the mission runner. If miners choose poorly and go afk and then get ganked we also say they DID have options but just choose not to use them. Doesnāt change a thing.
Thatās not what I said.
The scenario is controlled, the variables are checked. Not the same thing as ācontrolling all of its termsā.
Which I mentioned but as said that doesnāt happen unless itās a group of other baiters, which I have flagged so Iād know if they were in system. The chance of someone character not flagged as a pvper and not in the runnerās corp magically warping in at the same time I do is fairly low, like really low. So low that itās realistically zero.
I agree with you in practice, but if weāre debating about the merits of a ācontrolled scenarioā or ādictating the terms of the engagement,ā just the mere possibility of this contingency is enough to say that this absolute level of control doesnāt exist.
Which brings me back to the beginning again, to reiterate the point: itās entirely possible to not just survive the baiter, but beat them, if youāre prepared for it.
Only if the baiter is bad.
Thatās like saying itās fine to fly around in an Ibis with 1k plex onboard because if the ganker is bad youāll survive. Technically true, realistically nonsense.