Thank you for your valuable input. I have tried nullsec and it is horribly boring, the content is horribly played out, and most of your targets are bots.
Furthermore I make way more isk PvPing in high sec than I could ever hope to make PvPing in null.
What regions have you been? That looks like assumptions.
Itās been a while back, so maybe CCP has done something about it, either way the money is worse and there is far too little accessible content for small groups unless theyāre affiliated with a large group.
Iām not looking for standard PvP content. I like to ransom. IMO if your PvP doesnt fund itself then youāre doing it wrong.
PvP itself is the reward they say
If you throw cash at it sure but I dont have that kind of money IRL. Furthermore if I had to participate in the HORRID content that is Eve PvE in order to afford my PvP I would very quickly unsub.
Bump from a fellow baiter.
Having read the discussion above, it seems fairly clear that there is a whole lot of flaming in the thread. The most egregious is the discussion surrounding the role of alts vs that of friends.
I think we could all agree with @hellokittyonline that (e.g.) sitting around in an orca waiting for someone to shoot your buddy then pressing āwarp toā when they get shot and parking an orca next to them to let them reship is not very engaging, even if that were mechanically possible in the game (which it isnāt, with the exception of some edge cases). I would not wish that gameplay on anyone. I think we could all agree that some very narrow roles simply are simply not active enough to justify a person spending their life-hours on them.
However, I think we can also all agree that for a lot of people (I recognize that not for everyone), playing with friends is more fun than playing alone running a bunch of alts. I think this is the core of Hellokittyās argument. Of course we could have logi alts before the change, but because itās more fun to play with others, we chose to have logi friends.
The criminalization of neutral logi eliminated the one role that was active enough to justify the involvement of another ārealā person. There are a number of reasons why this role was engaging, not the least of which is the fact that a logi ship blinking yellow would often lead the mark to shoot the logi ship, resulting in aggression timers being āspread,ā whereupon the logi pilot could reship into a combat ship.
The situation now is pretty stupid. We were given exactly the tools we need to play this solo - triglavian t2 ships - at about the same time as neutral logi was criminalized. The result is that instead of needing to spread aggression to take down an extra tanky battleship, I can simply wait until my nergal ramps up to its (admittedly stupid) top DPS. From this perspective, a mission runner that shot a suspect worm before the logi change and introduction of trig ships had more chances to survive than someone who shoots a nergal now. All that was necessary before was to not spread aggression to the logi ships, bring friends, and then chose your targets focusing on one suspect player on grid at a time. Now you have a few minutes until a nergal ramps up to 700 DPS.
So you are such an insecure and risk averse snow-flake that you couldnāt handle one single game-mechanic change? More so one that prevents lop-sided trick fights in High-Sec? Well then, good riddance to you and your three accounts is in order! If you had any trace of courage and at least a good ball where it matters, youād move your PvP adventures to Low-Sec, Null-Sec or Wormhole space, where you can have all the logi you want. But deep down you know you will never do that, because youāre just a high-sec scrub who-se only game-play was based on gang-spider-logi unfair fights. A honourable 1 vs 1 must be unfathomable to you. Now either harden up or crawl into retirement and wipe the schmuck off your nose, no tears for you princess!
Thereās nothing wrong with being a Princess.
princesses are better than normal people
1 change? are you kidding me? Iāve been getting nerfed for 10 yearsā¦
You seem to have a very inconsistent narrative here.
Of.course if you really have been getting nerfed for 10 years yet still have no trouble finding kills, one might think your profession was OP to start with to still be viable after 10 years of constant nerfs.
That or you are outright lying in an attempt to gain sympathy.
You pick which one.
If you canāt HTFU then WoW and Hello Kitty Online are that way ā
ā¦oh wait @hellokittyonline teh irony 
ba dum tsh
Adrian, I am not sure you read what has been said before. The problem is not that the elimination of neutral logi made the gameplay more risky. We adapted very well to the changes. You of all people should know there are many tricks in our bags - you use some yourself! The problem is that that change atomized the suspect community. The mechanical change affected how social the gameplay is. It eliminated a role that used to be performed by baiters-in-training and pretty much the only aspect of the playstyle that made it suitable for fleets.
Speaking personally, the change did not and will not drive me out of the playstyle. As @hellokittyonline mentioned above, we also still hang out on comms and share war stories. However, we have lost all reasons to recruit or to play alongside each other (as opposed to in parallel to each other).
Lastly, I want to express my hope that your write in hyperbole simply to flame. First, all of us baiters in this thread have very well handled the āone single game-mechanic change,ā along with a number of other āsingle game mechanic changesā that are not being discussed here. The other changes, those not being discussed, did not atomize players in an MMO. Had we not been able to adapt, we would not be here. Second, the āgot to null secā line is fairly old, and I am sure you have heard it yourself multiple times from lazy carebears who imagine null sec dangerous. I will not address your leaning on space bushido and all the honorable 1v1s it may entail. That is a matter of subjective taste and sentiment that I personally see no reason to adopt, but in this respect to each her own.
Even if it was a community-driven activity, it was a cannibalistic, unsustainable activity.
People want conflicts, not violence, there is a subtle difference here. The person you bait is not offered a fight but a trap. Certainly he can learn a valuable lesson, but how will he react next time? Will he offer you another interaction? No, you will have to rely on another player coming into the game to trap him. Unsustainable.
Activities that do not generate more and more interactions should not be encouraged.
@Dantelion_Shinoni Thank you for reading before responding. I agree fully with your point in regards to fight vs trap. However, this does not address the question at hand. We are speaking about the criminalization of neutral logi in regards to suspect baiting (not wardecs). You seem to be arguing about suspect baiting as such. That is not being discussed. The playstyle is a well-established niche that is still very much actively occupied. Surely, you are not arguing for its elimination.
Oh no, Iām talking about neutral logi, from what I see at least when dealing only with the suspect ship, there is a semblance of a fight, or at least it is included enough into normal gameplay in which most players participate.
Using a neutral logi makes it a totally one-sided affair, and thus it sends the message to the person being baited ādonāt even botherā.
Does allowing logi to rep suspects increase the likelyhood of more people taking more baits? Iād say no, and thatās the problem.
Whether it increases the likelihood of people falling for the trap is beside the point. I am not sure if you have engaged in suspect baiting yourself, or if you are describing the situation as it looks from outside the community. However, I can assure you that we get plenty of targets as it is now, and we used to get plenty of targets before the change. Most people unaware enough to shoot obvious bait never concerned themselves with the possibility of there being logi.
I will refer you to my earlier post in regard to there being a semblance of a fight:
The situation now is pretty stupid. We were given exactly the tools we need to play this solo - triglavian t2 ships - at about the same time as neutral logi was criminalized. The result is that instead of needing to spread aggression to take down an extra tanky battleship, I can simply wait until my nergal ramps up to its (admittedly stupid) top DPS. From this perspective, a mission runner that shot a suspect worm before the logi change and introduction of trig ships had more chances to survive than someone who shoots a nergal now. All that was necessary before was to not spread aggression to the logi ships, bring friends, and then chose your targets focusing on one suspect player on grid at a time. Now you have a few minutes until a nergal ramps up to 700 DPS.
Yeah, but their reaction when they will realize that the logi is there is going to be āwell, thatās unfairā.
And I know unfair is part of EVE, but unfair in low-sec doesnāt make you stop going to plexes, for example.
I would be really interested in knowing if those targets are the same, Iād say obviously not.
See here, Iām talking specifically about re-engagement, as in someone choosing to re-engage and if logi increases or decreases this likelihood. I can see how logi makes the activity have less re-engagement compared to the regular suspect baiting.
And the topic is concerning suspects having a reason to fleet up. As it stands every other form of PvP play has a way and an incentive to fleet up. Suspects no longer do. The fact that we brought logi after the fact has no bearing on reengagability because logi or not the target has no chance.
Listen I get you all want your honor 1v1s but to remove group play entirely from suspects just because the people shooting us cant be bothered to bring friends or do research?
Lame.
So we just had a scenario rise the other day that explains the issue pretty well. A friend of mine was baiting a battleship with his nergal and the battleship had backup come in the system to try to kill my friend. Back before the logi change we wouldāve taken that fight. We would all typically bait in the same area and we all can fly logi. Now? it would just be a waste of a Nergal because we have no way to assist each other. So my friend just moved on to the next guy. Is this really more fun for everyone? Weāre baiting, these guys clearly wanted a fight, but suspects can no longer take a fleet fight because we cannot bring our own fleetā¦
Why CCP would favor solo play over group play in an MMO is beyond me.