Totally agree. Problem I see is, CCP made this change without looking at how many players use their JF’s.
It was made purely on the basis of “vigil cynos” but rather than create a module that has the effect but no use, they decided to go with making JF pilots lives more of a misery.,.
Vigils have a place in the game (I’ve attended a couple for lost friends) but so do JF pilots.,.
There is also the issue of deploying, now instead of my JF being able to jump with the caps/Supers and subcaps, I now need my own cyno.,.
Yeah the fleet can wait for me to, jump my hauling cyno through with the subs and even sit there for the 10 minutes it is active - Adding even more time to travelling to a fight.
Pretty sure this could mean, less deployments, less fights, less…
From what I read standard cynos are untoched, so you can still jump with supers. The ability to use Cynosural Field Generator I is untouched. @CCP_Rise, can you please confirm that.
you just risk the Force Recon or Black Ops doing so if you move the JF solo with them.
No, JF can now only jump to an “Industrial Cyno” which can only be fit to subcap haulers.
Your choices are - T1 hauler, Blockade runner, Deepspace transport.
!st choice; is cheap and won’t survive most journeys through lowsec or nulsec is also hard to replace as each one is 20K m3 packaged.
2nd choice; Blockade runner, costly somewhat easier to move about in lowsec and nulsec but is expensive to replace and will die due to being stuck in space for 10 minutes at a time.
3rd choice; Deepspace hauler, not really suitable as a cyno as they are just big fat killmails waiting to happen - Not easy to move about in hostile space and will die due to 10 minutes stuck in space.
Basically CCP has screwed over every JF pilot in the game with yet another “really well thought out change” [ " "sarcasm]
In their first post they said they restricting standard cynos to 10 hulls (Blobs and Force Recons) and giving JF the ability to use covert cynos. It wasn’t stated that it’s exclusively Covert Cynos.
Now they told us that Covert Cynos are not longer are an option but there will be the industrial cyno, that can be fitted to industrials, okay. Actually even T2 isn’t that clear. In the text of the Update explicitly stated T1 industrials.
Where do you have the information that a JF CANT jump to a standard cyno lit by Force Recons or Black Ops?
@CCP_Rise can you clarify if JF can use standard cynos and if Blockade Runners and Deepspace Transports can use industrial cynos?
Be interesting to see what the duration is on industrial cyno. 10 mins seems a bit steep its a shame they changed their mind on covert opts cyno. I can see why they would rethink it though as catching a jump freighter or even the cyno would be near impossible with a 60 sec time.
I know with the latter option I would cloak up in ss check d scan for probes then uncloak light cyno warp freighter to station bm then with covert opts web freighter. It would be very hard to catch that in 60 seconds. Unless you have preplanned probes beforehand.
You don’t catch a JF as they jump in, ever actually. The only time this happens is if the pilot goes afk or has connection troubles as the jump. They always instantly dock.
The cyno beacon is just a free kill at this point, or for the really, really lazy, tells people watching the overview something happened.
But considering the only places where this actually matters is lowsec… since lowsec as local IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THEY SEE A CYNO OR NOT a real hunter will know their JF targets when they show in local.
Let me give you a better idea how we hunt JF:
Bump in warp to gate
Instablap when they undock to warp to gate from npc station
Bait citadel that is used to lure them into docking, and catching them when they undock
Catch in highsec via surprise gank
Kill their escape cyno by bumping it away from safety, then going after ship as it’s in highsec
And a few other methods I won’t talk about
CCP has gone on and on about how limiting information via blackout is good. Why not remove cyno info from the in game map too? Why the double standard?
Or how about they just stop while they’re ahead? This whole idea is half-baked and stupid. No player input seen aside from “omgwtfbbq my freighter!”
No thought about how this affects small groups. No thought on solo people. Or maybe there is some thought here, but it’s asinine, I dunno – these people will now have to join large blocs to move ships without it being more of a hassle than it already is.
They indicate that this is supposed to combat the Null blocs from being able to keep the capital umbrella, but then they don’t actually apply more than half a thought to the actual gameplay mechanics. This change won’t change much at all for the blocs, because they can afford to SRP the new cyno ships. Sure it’ll cost more, but to these groups with tens or hundreds of trillions of ISK, its a drop in the bucket.
Instead, they should make the module not compatible with cloak, only fittable to frigates and cruisers, and the module polarizes the ship when active. Perhaps a spool-up time should be introduced as well, but that I’m seeing negatives for either spoolup or no spoolup.
Then there is no on-grid cloaky cyno alt problem that still exists with the currently proposed system. It also means that if you’re paying attention you’ll see the cyno approaching on dscan, will see it land, and have some chance to kill it. On the attacking side, you’ll see the on-grid cyno, and have to decide if you want to tackle the target, or kill the cyno first.
This whole “chaos era” (more like tantrum era) is literally killing this game. There is no way to spin the reality as positive. People are gone and it is getting worse by the day. The influx of pilots who love this kind of game does not exist.
Why release a new type of Cyno specifically for JF’s if they can still use the one they have for years?
Even by CCP logic (which is in very short supply) there is no reason for that.,.
Sadly I can only go by what information is in the OP’s posts - Which of course isn’t all that much.,.
The Rorqual is a Capital INDUSTRIAL ship and Orcas/Porpoises are INDUSTRIAL Command Ships, So I would expect they should obviously be able to jump to an INDUSTRIAL Cynosural Field Generator. Kind of a no-brainer right?
But then I see this… Industrial Cynosural Field Generator
Generates a cynosural field for jump drives to lock on to as their target destination. Industrial Cynosural Fields are specifically attuned to support the jump drives of Jump Freighters . This is so utterly Confusing.
I truly feel for the folks that got the shaft by trying to proactively train up the alts on their cyno chain.
… Tell me how then anyone imports things to bull or low in an effective manner… Ever bought things of a market in null??? Of course this will effect everyone. The price of JF routes is likely to go up as we will need to dedicate more m3 to just maintaining the route… Which means less m3 for real cargo, meaning the fuel cost is gonna be split across a smaller hold… I.e. now that the cyno kills will generate kill mails, I’m sure they’re gonna be a juicier target, so I have to plan on stocking them… My jump route has 7 stops… 140,000m3 to restock my route one way… So instead of my route costing 290isk/m3 across 375,000 m3 it’s now across 235,000m3 at 470isk/m3 these costs will have to be passed to the delivered good, I e… You and everyone who wants something imported to null or low
I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with “entry lvl skill sets”. T1 haulers are a pita to move about and stage for move OP’s or even regular routes, they are even worse to carry around with you to replace those that die at every midpoint.
Right now i carry LO and a few Cyno’s in my JF - If / when one dies I just have to replace the cyno. After the change, I’ll need multiple T1 haulers staged at every regular midpoint + a stock of Industrial Cyno mods.
For any job that isn’t on a regular route - moving T1 haulers through nulsec or lowsec to move a JF, yeah, not sure I even want to think about that.,.
The “Era of Chaos” at its finest - CCP has actually been using this for many years as a development model, they just recently decided to put a name to it.
CCP has a very long history of not telling the whole story, not being consistent with change, ignoring those they ASK for feedback, etc - “Era of Chaos” has been around for the best part of 5 years. The only thing that has changed is now CCP is using direct intervention (the cheapest solution as it requires no actual “game development”) instead of actual “game development” to force change, for better or worse.
Yea, but that is not as a pain in the ass as need to carry a Force Recon, maybe 300m worth. If I’m right you can build the routes with maybe an Enforcer and jump T1 indus as “regular” cyno ships. Just as an idea to limit the skills you need.
Yea that doesn’t really help much. And it definitely doesn’t help for the haulers that aren’t delivering to static locations and hence can’t even pre-populate routes.
I could have lived with it maybe if only the industrial cyno could be used on a ship I could at least fit inside a blockade runner. That way at least I could have a cloaky ship to get my cyno in place and then unpack and undock with the cyno ship.
Even that would help CCP’s supposed “balance”. A BR is certainly “safer” to fly through hostile space but they are WAY easier to catch than a covops or interceptor.
You would need a Titan to jump anything other than Covert ships, Bombers, Force Recons and Blackops Battleships.
Moving a Titan around in nulsec and lowsec to move T1 hauler Cynos into place makes less sense than what CCP is doing.
My regular Cyno route to highsec is 6 jumps - To use a Titan to move Cynos into place would require moving my titan 9 times (due to shorter jump ranges), through hostile space just to move a few million isk worth of Cyno ships.
I have long held that cynos were one of the most broken things I’ve seen in any game, and I’m glad they’re changing them. People will probably be quite a bit more confident in taking smaller fights, knowing they at least have some period of time where they have a clue as to what they’re fighting.
That being said, I think the implementation is a bit crude. Warm up timers and different sized cynos with mass limits seems like a much cleaner way to address the cyno issue than this. Dropping a cruiser on top of frigate after 15 seconds of immobility isn’t game-breaking. Dropping an entire super-capital fleet on a T2 cruiser probably still is.
All in all, I think this will help content at the gang level, but won’t have much of a meaningful impact at limiting capital and supercapital fleets, other than perhaps making larger organizations, which are more likely to have force recon alts, even more dominant. Hiding a force recon in the target system will just be an administrative item FCs will have to check off before they go into fights. I’m still glad something is being done, but I wish there was a little more finesse in the change.