Like I say, Ive never been in a Null Bloc, so I dont know, this is why Im asking 
But Im going to assume from what you say no one carries a cyno themselves on these fleets to port in a defense counter.
Ok well Im not arguing for the sake of it, but you just said he doesnt attack when theres not someone soloing, so thereās your counter against him? Just log in a few alts, done?
Cynos cannot be fit to every ship anymore (to stop the issue you describe). People used to do that, but not anymore.
Only recons ans blops ships carry cynos now.
Which brings us round to a fleet where everyone is wanting to krab and no one is wanting to be guard.
I mean, I can fly Recon, and my mining sucks, so I would volunteer for that role, so its nto like there arent people who would do that.
Crabs spread out over many systems in a region, the defense fleet is in only one and will take a couple minutes to arrive, which is long enough for a crab to get killed.
Look if we are angling at no losses ever, then I dont think we are going to find a situation which will work.
I mean, I could say the very act of putting a counter-afk in a Recon should have SOME impact on your chance of being attacked, because it should work both ways, right?
Why?
The income you can generate in null-sec is too high for any āversionā of empire space. Even if the safety is player-enforced, itās still too high. Itās like saying āI donāt want to just be in high-sec under the protection of CONCORD and make 50 million an hour, I want to be under the protection of collective defense and intelligence mechanics and make 500 million an hour.ā
Itās not fair to everyone else, even if in theory null-sec is more dangerous than high-sec. Because what it comes down to is that when thereās so much wealth to be generated, people stop fighting each other under a sort of mutual understanding, acknowledging that itās better for everyone involved to just keep to themselves and farm.
And thatās why null-sec is where it is today.
3 Likes
Iām not angling at no losses ever. Losses are fine sometimes, sometimes even a fun memorable fight.
Agreed! But who is goimg to sit on a blops bridge waiting for an afk cloaker to come back from work to counterdrop? Not me, I like doing that when there is a possibility of content, not when 99% of the time I would sit doing nothing.
Now if I had some certainty that the cloaky hunter was at the keyboard, then forming a counterdrop would be fun.
Not enough anomalies, payout rate in system low, keeping adms up, roaming gangs, there are many reasons to not all be in the same system.
Fair, then Id say this;
If changes come in to make stationary cloaking more awkward, will people then angle for Recons to be nerfed as you can do the same thing with one without needing a cloak?
In regards to spreading out;
Id still say that protection in numbers should in cases outweigh sheer profit, but like I say, Ive never been invited to join a null outfit.
Oh, I usually just do whatever anyway, because f that guy. The problem isnāt this one guy, but the gameplay it represents. I just want to be able to kick the dude out of my systems, if he is afk all day long. Not much to ask is it? After all, null is supposed to be risky. Where is the risk to this guy, who has been in hostile space for a year?
I do have fun, however, offering bounties to yeet fleets that donāt wanna engage on receipt of the corpse. Sometimes guy is active, and logs out for an hour or two.
On your other discussion, krabs spread out to not tank the bounty modifier. A good mechanism, leads to folks not being congregated in one krabhole all day long. More targets, more risk, less reward - itās why a lot of the hyperkrabbers have left null for high sec abyssals.
Destiny: why is it unfair to everyone else that folks form large groups to defend their space, organise intel channels and gather the (now) 50bn+ for a super just to earn 10x the income they can make comparatively risk-free in high sec?
Firstly, everyone else can go to nullsec if they want to earn that kind of money, secondly there are more efficient ways to earn Super-ratting levels of money, and thirdly the amount of Isk you earn isnāt the point for people that play in null long-term, itās the ābuilding your own empireā gameplay that keeps people in.
1 Like
I guess you mean the dscan immune recons? I though of the same thing, but they arenāt combat probe immune. 
Also I think only the covops recons can use cynos, not sure.
One of the first things to tell a newbie in null sec is to not rat in the crowded systems. Too many people in local and ships on dscan to keep track. And if someone catches you, youāre still often dead before backup arrives.
Wel if you are dead either way, Id prefer to park near 5 other deer on the odds the enemy doesnt roll a 6.
I suppose not.
Eh, I still think its pretty fair atm. I guess if EvEās not supposed to be fair, it doesnt really matter who its unfair on vOv
Because the risk isnāt actually there. As I said previously, everyone has a tacit agreement to minimize interference. Making such large amounts of money would be fine if the expenditures were tangible as well, but they arenāt.
In fact, null-sec is mechanically more safe than high-sec. Local in null-sec is a better intelligence tool than local in high-sec, because it gives you perfect information. In high-sec, you can be attacked by anyone, at any time. Cloaking is the only gameplay element that counterbalances this privilege in null-sec.
Yes, but not really. The best opportunities are highly exclusionary.
But the ease combined with the relative safety still makes null-sec one of the most attractive and low-skill farming options in the game. Can you make more money trading, for example? Sure, but then you actually have to think.
The whole āempire-buildingā thing is a red herring. There are no empires, because everyone is part of one big empire. True empire-building can take place when and where resources are limited, creating the need to fight over them. In EVE, resources are unlimited, and every system is pretty much the same. The only difference between one āempireā and another next door is the name and alliance logo.
2 Likes
AFK cloakers have always been a hypocrisy. I get the idea ā the implementation is entirely stupid. They tried to crack down elsewhere - its about time they do the cloakers next.
Hopefully this is something they can fix without turning it to complete crap but I donāt believe anyone should benefit from being mostly AFK.
Cloak fuel would solve the problem nicely.
This is inaccurate. Nullsec is not mechanically more safe, it is simply more clear who is going to try killing you. There are more ways to be killed, by more powerful ships, without any threat of CONCORD response limiting the value of attacking ships. So, mechanically, it is more dangerous to fly in space with bubbles, cynos and capitals floating about than space that doesnāt.
As for this tacit agreement that āeveryoneā has, please do expand further as I feel you are either wildly mistaken or in receipt of knowledge that has not been made available to the dozens of people I engage in combat with on a daily basis. Would be good to get that knowledge out there so we can all stop wasting time having fun and get down to the serious business of grinding for isk we donāt need.
Again, Iām going to need some citation here. Which opportunities are you talking about?
Yes, this is my point: nullsec empires have nullbears in the same way that high sec has carebears. They are a necessary component of the empire gameplay - people farming, gathering resources and producing materiel for the empire to defend and attack with. If you donāt like this type of gameplay, thatās fine but it really doesnāt preclude it from being valid.
Itās only a red herring if you specifically and deliberately ignore the whole history of these empires trying their level best to blow each other up. Which has been the predominant feature of Eve as a game since its inception.
I also feel that you are - again - either wholly ignorant of the current landscape in null, or wilfully misrepresenting the situation for some personal ideological reason. Which is fine in and of itself, but hardly conducive to a sensible discussion around the mechanics of cloaky camping, which is what weāre ostensibly here to talk about.
Eh this highly depends on your perspective.
Many people dont even hear about half the alleged wars that have happened.
Yeah, a stale mate enduced peace is always going to be profitable than constant warfare, so again from my perspective, I would disagree this is the case.
Every one will always have a narrative to gain an advantage with thier type of gameplay.
Oh, I donāt disagree that the largest blocs have had their fair share of NAPs and NIPs over the years. These have tended to be, however, only between a couple of them at a time, and always to the detriment of another of the blocs who tend to get busy being beaten up.
Of course, that only considers the major groups on a galaxy-wide scale. There are literally uncountable smaller groups that come and go, fade in and fade out, and are in near-constant states of war for territory, or for glory.
In the past 4 months, for example, there has been the big WWB2 going on, where tens of thousands of players have been involved in daily combat of one form or another. Then you have WinterCo moving into Tribute/Vale, and a months-long war against the people that were living there. As they retreated into Pure Blind, more conflict happened there. Then you have other groups playing while the blocs attention are elsewhere: Geminate, Catch, Impass, Cache, etc.
Go back 18 months, there were different groups fighting each other, but a similar level of conflict. Go back 36 months, different groups again, still conflict.
I think the critical point you are missing here is that the biggest groups only maintain membership with content - which is to say, war (or at least constant skirmishing if you want to look at it that way). No-one stays āat peaceā for very long because it is boring. Just like afk cloaky campers that you cannot counter.
Yeah Ive only heard about WWB2 out of that, and from out-of-game sources. BAsically, barring abstract economic changes to the market, thereās nothing that happens in Null that affects the rest of us. I started playing EvE because of an ancient war and stories of null, its true, but when it became apparent Id never even see one, I decided to see whatelse the game offered.
Maybe Im just really successful in not paying attention.
So then explain krabbing, where you need long periods of uninterrupted peace to make your isk? Those people have no interest in fighting in a war or they would be doing it?
My Main Can fight a war using blinged titans while my bots are doing something else.