Cloaky Camping - From a Wormholer's Perspective

If you are indifferent to it then why post then. Sadly I have seen a lot of people give up on Eve or operating in nullsec because of this mechanic, which is why developing a mechanic to hunt them in some way that does not impact cloaks is a good thing.

I have also operated while being cloaky camped many times, including using carriers when being camped by Razor (when they were actually good.) Another time by PL and were had fun at their expense, problem is that baiting only works when they are ATK. I have baited too.

The only time I lost so to speak against AFK cloaky camping was in Stain when trying to set up a small group of newer players under the noses of bigger groups so to speak. AFK cloaky camping was the only way they could drive us out and it worked because my recruits found it so lame.

So I have a pretty similar attitude to you in terms of operating in nullsec, except I know how much it kills content.

He is correct, in my experience people who have ISK and an attitude will develop the will to fight with a certain level of abundance and desire to stamp their ownership on an area of space and will take on roaming gangs at times. AFK cloaky camping without a counter just blows that apart for most people and as such is a content killer IMO. You just have a different opinion and experience.

I think having people who will take fights at times is better than having no one in space, but that is just my feeling.

Again, this thread is a “blinders” thread.

Do you really think exploration people who are stuck in a system where the gates are camped and are trying to stay alive will be “happy”.

I don’t think that is the word they would use?

The reason this thread is not flooded with responses is all those exploration, WH types are confident they won’t get nerfed just to make bots less frightened.

Try to be realistic.

EDIT: Also the “I want to hunt them” excuse, used widely in the real Cloaky thread, is generally considered to be FALSE BRAVADO

Good. Why is it so hard for people like you to understand that nullsec is not supposed to be for everyone? It is a 100% intended part of EVE’s design that people will attempt to live in nullsec, fail because they are too weak to survive there, and either go back to highsec or ragequit EVE entirely. If they can’t handle a threat as pathetic as an AFK name in local then their failure is a good thing for EVE.

which is why developing a mechanic to hunt them in some way that does not impact cloaks is a good thing.

This is not possible. Any way to hunt AFK cloakers would be a nerf to cloaking. This has been explained to you over and over and over and over and over again.

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When I went away for long periods I would safe log, which you can do if you are not actively hunted, even if you are then merely picking a decent place to safe log should be fine in an exploration frigate as most people will fail to get a 100% lock on you. Do you even know how to play this game?

Considered by people like you, I am sure that it made you feel good adding that but it just proved something about your attitude. Is Eve supposed to be an AFK game or an active game?

Not necessarily.

A very simple (and bad!) example of a change that would hurt afk cloaking but not regular cloaking would be to automatically uncloak a person if they have been afk for say, two hours.

I’m not saying that’s a good idea, in fact it’s terrible, but what I’m saying is that there are ways to hurt afk cloaking with minimal impact on regular cloaking.

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A lot of people have react to my statement so i will clarify.

When (and not if, beacause it must be change for the health of the game) cloack will be nerf (for afk, but a loto of way to change AFK camp risk to nerf active cloacky, so …).
CCP need to change some rule of farming. I have made proposition,but they have work only before ESS/DBS things, and before all scarity era , beacause actually to many people leave 0.0 to go to HS who you could make more money (and obviusly with less risk).
So 0.0 become more and more empty day after day (if you remove the warzone).

So i will give you a good exemple of what could have be a nerf of cloack before vlackout and scarity era .

I don’t said it will have be perfect it’s an exemple of how 3 years ago game could have be change.

Cloacky launch you a timer (like jump fatigue timer , on you’re screen), but when timer reach 0 (start at 15 min could up to 40 min with a skill 5) , you are instannetly decloack for 5 minutes. If you off you’re cloack module before end of timer for a minimum of 60 second you are safe (so yes invisibility when you pass throught buble count on this time).

When you farm an anomaly (PVE OR MINING), all bounty and ore you collect give you a score who is increase each “tick” when in theory pve player receive ISK.
This score increase by 1 every Million you have farm (or ore estimable value of ore /gas collected).
When you are in anomaly (green thing ,not red one who are signature): if you shoot a NPC or start collect a roid, you declench a malus.

Malus description: Every 10 point you’re warp/jump is delayed of 1 sec when you push warp or jump button (and CAN’T BE CANCEL, if you’re cyno destination die you go to the sun of the landing system). (Yes you get it, you could be align, BUT if you have 500 point beacause you have farm 500 M, you’re warp start 50 sec after pushing the warp button). Maximum time (and good luck to reach it if you are not a bot) 3 000 point (3 B farm and you are stuck 5 minute).
The score is reduce by 20 every tick (20 min tick if i remimber WHEN YOU DON’T FARM).
When the last npc OR roid of the belt is dead you’re warp/jump is not delayed anymore. Warp inside ore site are allowed (1 000 km around center of anomaly)
And it could have be discutable if normal belt/moon belt are include on this mechanism, for me it must have be, but could have be a discussion on it.

If you farm less than 10 millions/tick, system give you 0 point. This is a protection for little farmer/roammer who have to shoot a rat who tacle something they bring in anom.

About the it can’t be cancel : You could be tackle of course, i means the accoutn who engage the action can’t cancel. And he must relaunch the manipulation at the end of timer when untacle. So yes it make the tacle easier and allow to hunter some error on tacle thing i know ( beacause basically you just have to praise to tacle him only at the end of his timer to deny to the ship a warp out.

So some math :
You are a newbro who make play a lot and win few every hour (let’s say 12M TICK SO 36 point hour, play 5 hour, you will have 180 point), and stuck 18 second.
You have farm 2 hour and make 500 M => you are stuck 50 second where hunter could hunt you. So yes you could have intel… good luck if the roam move fast.
You are a nano easy hell target and you have farm 2B in 3 hours : OK deal with 3 minutes and 20 second delay.

You understand with this mechanism (and it was before filament), intell will not have the biggest way to avoid to be gank, beacause basically a lot of player have to deal with risk/reward: Did i continue to farm with ennemy 5 jump away, maybe they come for me ? maybe not ? if you press you’re warp button now you will be safe.

But CCP have prefer to maintain cloack, blackout and scarity.

CCP nerf by reducing content, i want a content increase nerf (so a nerf who make you need to put effort/risk if you want money with counter to everything, and not nerf economy by just make people dock).

Complicated.

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I’m not the one posting on the forums because he is AFRAID to undock in a system if he is not alone.

Since the post was about being hunted, this is just more smoke and mirrors.

That is a really wild aggressive attack statement that is the norm for this forum. I guess those kills I have on PL hot-droppers for example all all fake. I was so scared, LMAO…, yeah right…

The post is about being able to hunt them when they are AFK, but as you support AFK play you don’t want that.

You get what you dish out.

Bull.

But that absolutely would hurt “regular” cloaking! If it is suicide to stay cloaked while AFK then any name in local must represent an active threat. The cloaked ship might not be attacked directly but everyone in the system (and everyone in the regional intel channels) knows it is there and all targets that are vulnerable to it are docked.

So you say. CCP says otherwise.

Cloacky launch you a timer (like jump fatigue timer , on you’re screen), but when timer reach 0 (start at 15 min could up to 40 min with a skill 5) , you are instannetly decloack for 5 minutes.

Oh look, the same terrible cloak nerf proposal that has been shot down over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again in the past. Why do people like you always think you’re clever and coming up with something that hasn’t already been considered and discarded as a profoundly stupid idea?

If you farm less than 10 millions/tick, system give you 0 point.
When the last npc OR roid of the belt is dead you’re warp/jump is not delayed anymore.

IOW, instead of farming different sites with multiple alts everyone will just farm the same site with multiple alts, reset their timer before it ever becomes a problem, and then move the fleet on to the next site. Do you ever bother to think through the effects of your terrible ideas?

(Obviously you don’t.)

and not nerf economy by just make people dock

CCP isn’t forcing you to dock. Plenty of people are able to continue farming and make lots of ISK, it’s only the lowest-tier renter trash that has to dock because they can’t cope with a single non-blue name in local.

No, it’s about people like you being completely incapable of understanding game mechanics and thinking through the consequences of a change. You will never be able to hunt AFK players because AFK players are not idiots. If going AFK while cloaked is no longer safe then those players will log out instead and you will still have nothing to hunt. The only difference will be that local will be a more effective tool for avoiding PvP.

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CCP said they need nerf afk cloack for the health of the game.

Sorry just this broke you’re whole argumentation.

After read my WHOLE POST not only quote part and avoid to read some sentence (cherry picking sentence are easy).

Ho and you’re counter " farm the same site with they’re fleet and move" … if you accept to make less than 30 M per hour in 0.0 and per account … nice, Hi sec was and his actually more rentable enjoy.

Yes people could farm in giant fleet … rentability of this is shitty per account. And if they already do that (for adm for exemple) , you will not engage they actually with you’re little cloacky bomber and cyno against a full munin pvp fleet. So don’t change this thing.

The only thing who will really change is : No more free KM for pvpbear, they need to miove, be active and take risk.

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Um, no, that’s not how it works at all. Farming 10 sites simultaneously with 10 accounts is the same ISK/hour as farming 10 sites one after the other with all 10 accounts together. You use 10x more accounts per site, but you finish them 10x faster. And with local now far more effective as an intel tool for avoiding PvP any slight efficiency losses will be more than offset by having way more farming time available.

CCP said they need nerf afk cloack for the health of the game.

{citation needed}

CCP may have said that they need to nerf AFK cloaking because their new owners need to milk the cash cow of renter trash paying $15/month for the privilege of farming but that’s not the same as improving the health of the game.

No more free KM for pvpbear, they need to miove, be active and take risk.

And then local makes it impossible to catch anything because as soon as they move to a new system everyone in the system is already docked.

PS: PvP has lots of risk. It’s only risk-free when the “owners” of the system are useless renter trash that hand out free killmails.

You haven’t understand right ? And more over you don’t know how farmign work right ?

Ok let’s imagine you’re assumption on speed is true (spoiler it’s false for some reasons, i will not enter on it, i don’t need to proof you don’t know mechanism).

10 player warp each to a site . They have 10 warp time.
10 player warp to 10 site => 100 warp time.

“yes but warp time is short , and …”=> Warp time is warp time, if you take 20 second to warp, it’s not a lot , but if you take 200 … yes you get it you will have an issue on you’re tick, less risk, less reward. All fine.

After with the system i ghave explain : 10 player make 50M pet tick if you want (so 500 M tick they are strong, it’s just for the exemple, beacause a player alone could make more than that 3 year ago in 0.0). Ok they ALL have the timer issue… so you could catch they. Work as intended.

And i do’nt need to continue, you edit you’re post , you haven’t read recent devblog and make assumption 'is for cashcow" when no metrics said 0.0 is not healthy.

You said “yes but local” , i will said: Yes but free intel on in game map ?
And with the system i have explain, no people will not be able to go to dock fast. More over intel require man power.
So i maintain : Only pvpbear will have negatively impact on this. for solo roammer for exemple it’s a very good change i have propose, they will have be able to catch people who farm, and intell in 0.0 will not be enought to avoid that if you have farm a lot.

But pvp bear will aways want to protect the free killmail and risk free killmail generator who is perma cloack and who permit they to engage ennemy at they 're term and only they’re term with a near totally deny of all response. And it’s unealthy for the game. Make PVP great again.

Exactly. Any slight differences in warp time efficiency will be more than offset by the vast increase in available farming time once local is a 100% effective warning tool for avoiding PvP.

Ok they ALL have the timer issue… so you could catch they.

Except, as I have already explained to you, they won’t have timers because they will fleet farm multiple sites in sequence and never build up a timer.

Yes but free intel on in game map ?

What about it? Map intel is delayed, lacking in details, and requires interpretation to be useful. Local in the absence of AFK cloaking is a 100% accurate and immediate notification that a threat is present.

More over intel require man power.

No it doesn’t. You watch local and dock if a non-blue name appears. That’s it.

Please explain your idea of the difference between regular and afk cloaking if ‘regular’ cloaking gets impacted by something that happens after 2h without any input to the client.

To me your idea of ‘regular’ cloaking sounds a lot like ‘afk’ cloaking, to be honest. Anyone using cloaks in a legitimate non-afk manner would have been able to do at least some client inputs in those two hours.

Because in most scenarios a cloaked ship is ineffective if local says “A THREAT IS HERE DOCK UP NOW”. In a world with AFK cloaking local is not 100% accurate, that name in local could be an active threat or it could be AFK. In a world where AFK cloaking is no longer possible everyone knows that a name in local is an active threat. It doesn’t matter if you’re cloaked or not, your target knows you are there and has warped back to a station and docked.

I feel like we’re talking past eachother. This is not what I was talking about.