But you know what, you’re right. I once again totally forgot that it only takes a few days to also train up the titan skill so they must be equally desirable to the frigate in all aspects of the game totally undermining my argument that there is progression in the game.
I replied to the wrong one, which is why I deleted it. Someone sent me a message and told me he took me out of context, I’ll track it down in a min and reply to it directly.
I’m calling you ignorant because you are insisting that frigates are only comparable in “fleet PvP” and that EVE has a linear progression when it has one of the least linear progressions in the genre. You clearly don’t understand how anything outside of capital/supercapital farming works, and that’s why you post utter nonsense like claiming that a Vigilant has ~30-75 DPS and a 200 million ISK ship can’t expect to get more than 8 million ISK a day ratting in nullsec.
You know you can click the little up arrow button and go directly to the post in a quote, right? If you do that you’ll see that I quoted literally every word of your post.
Yep but the link wasn’t given when it was told to me, the link is here though:
I think someone datamined that from somewhere on reddit and according to that it goes from 30% to 120%
Ok? I said that if you fly cheaper ships you need less ISK, you replied with “prices do not change if you fly a cheaper ship”. I’m not sure what context you’re adding to this that makes “cheaper ships do not have a lower price” a reasonable thing to say.
When you have to bring up genetic fallacies embedded with strawman to make you’re point, you’re losing your point.
The fact is, you’re claiming there is no progression in this game, but you know what, fine. Sure. You’re right. As I said, the frigate is obviously just as time consuming to train into as the titan so I’ll digress and just admit I’m wrong because both have equal desirability which is why it’s equally time consuming to spec into both because if it were different, that might indicate that there were progression. But there can’t be any progression which is why fc’s never tell people what they can and cannot fly because there is never a problem where everyone wants to fly their caps in fleet pvp right?
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My guesses what will happen after this change:
Normal players go more and more towards abyssal deadspace. Its just not very good idea to move lone ratting ships around all the time. More effective to use abyssal alt or jump clone in highsec.
Botting alliances/corps start to jump clone, titan bridge or just normal move op their botting fleets from system to system when multiplier goes down too much, evading the effect of this change.
Do not build straw man arguments.
But please do feel free to keep dismissing the importance of anything that isn’t a supercapital and highlighting the reasons that you’re in a bottom-tier renter alliance.
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All sarcasm aside, there is a reason why you have to tell people what ships you need when forming up. Don’t believe me? Tell folks in your corp (where everyone has a cap) that you’re running an op and to bring what they want to bring - watch what shows up. Popularity isn’t a measure of “better” most of the time, but what is, is desire. For instance, we humans like blowing ■■■■ up and watching ■■■■ blow up. If everyone could be a combat engineer (they blow ■■■■ up) in the US Army, trust me, they would be. I don’t claim to understand it, but I know that desire is there and when it comes to making big explosions there is only one class of ship that does that the best and it is the most coveted and most “progressed” ship there is.
I get it, every class has it’s place, but that doesn’t mean everyone (or even a good fraction) of people like flying it. I’ve yet to meet an eve player that says, “You know, I wasted my isk on this titan and would rather just fly my frigate.”
If you say that you’re that player, I’ll outright call you a liar.
Yes, exactly: because EVE does not have a linear progression. If it did there would be no need to organize fleet doctrines, you’d just have everyone bring the biggest (and therefore most powerful) ship they own and the side with the most total power would win.
But, again, your inability to grasp this concept is why you think that a Vigilant has 30-75 DPS and a 200 million ISK ship can’t make more than 8 million ISK a day farming in nullsec.
If you say that you’re that player, I’ll outright call you a liar.
Well yes, you’d say that because you are hilariously ignorant about how anything outside of supercapital farming works. There have been lots of times where I’ve left the capitals in the hangar and flown smaller ships for fun, even all the way down to T1 frigates.
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You’re obsessed with the need for renter alliances to keep their income and you demonstrate exactly the level of understanding of PvP that I’d expect from someone who went straight from highsec mission farming to supercapital farming in a renter alliance. Deny it all you like but the shoe fits perfectly.
It used to be that way when there were a lot of new players running around and only a small hand-full of capitol pilots. You didn’t have to tell [as many] people what ship to bring BECAUSE this is progression. Because players are mostly so old in this game that they have progressed through it, doesn’t mean that progression doesn’t exist. It means it’s spent. Again, if you’re looking to argue and troll - fine. If you’re looking to genuinely help this game and improve it, then attack the actual issues of the game and stop going after the scapegoats.
Why? LOL My entire argument has been about economy when speaking on the actual income hit not protecting renter alliances. The only mention I have made which has been strawman is that I’m in a renter alliance. I didn’t say I’ve always been in one or this is the only toon I have or that all of my toons are in a renter alliance. No, that’s what you’ve assumed because you do indeed have a nasty confirmation bias going on there.
You’re ignoring the point. In your own words:
there is a reason why you have to tell people what ships you need when forming up
If you have to tell people what ships to bring when forming up then it is a sign that there isn’t a linear progression because if there was then there would be no uncertainty about which ships you need. Everyone who can bring a titan would bring a titan, everyone who can’t would bring the biggest ship they can fly. This would be the answer in every situation every time.
Now, if you want to turn around and say that no, you don’t have make fleet doctrines anymore because everyone has progressed into capitals then your earlier statement is false. You can’t have it both ways.
No, that’s what you’ve assumed because you do indeed have a nasty confirmation bias going on there.
Ok, you are correct. I will admit that I have made some assumptions, and will acknowledge the possibility that you are not currently in a renter alliance but are exactly the kind of low-skill player that is typically found in one.
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This destroys the catch up mechanic for the little guy.
Most vets don’t need to rat as they have hundreds of billions in the bank. The little guy will just get squashed by this, there’s NO WAY vets are going to take part in trillion isk battles to secure some ratting space for the little people. They’ll simply prevent starter corps like Karma Fleet and Dreddit from using the space.
This will also lead to a Mexican stand-off, vets won’t risk their toys in a world where replacing them is tough due to ore changes and bounty nerfs. The game will degrade to subcaps online and those PC Gamer articles about supercap battles which personally brought me to the game, will stop as there won’t be anything to write about.
The long term hook of becoming a titan pilot which kept me subbed on 3 accounts for years, won’t be so compelling when you don’t see them in space or read about them in BRs. The game needs a long term hook of supers for players to strive for.
What exactly is compelling about null sec now? The optimal isk making will be in high sec after these changes:
- Abyssal running is best done in high sec
- Triple boxing L4 missions for 600m/hour in high sec
- Incursions
- Best ore (shared with low)
What the heck does null sec get??
Go play ALBION ONLINE and UNDERSTAND why the Black Zones are so compelling in that game and why people fight for them. Null sec is just lolsec space after these changes where it should be the most lucrative area of Kspace.
An odd set of changes from an odd design team that seems intent on killing off its veteran playerbase.
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Then who exactly is squashing the “little guy”, if the vets are all holding back?
The game will degrade to subcaps online
This is a feature, not a bug, and the sooner it happens the better.
The game needs a long term hook of supers for players to strive for.
It really doesn’t. EVE worked just fine without them before they were introduced, and I’d be 100% happy if CCP could figure out a way to remove them from the game entirely without completely wrecking the economy and everyone’s investments.
An odd set of changes from an odd design team that seems intent on killing off its veteran playerbase.
But wait, I thought the vets were all fine because they have hundreds of billions of ISK in the bank and it’s the newer players who are hurt by this?
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utter nonsense continues attempt to embarass yourself.
Ability to own capital ships is removed by the fact of knowing cyno trash IS in the system, cloaked, ready to drop anything you undock. The only thing that can be undocked in those conditions is a super under super umbrella - it’s the only thing that can survive the drop long enough and has reinforcement strong enough to deter the attacker. Any alliance without access to that is unable to undock anything in blackout condition.
I do not need that notification - I knew we had 3 different known cyno droppers stashed in our systems from locator agents. Hence the entire blackout was one huge time to dock up.
Utter nonsense. It lost all viability for everyone not in a bloc in a super under super umbrella.
I complain that now I can earn my little daily 50mil in that time, and in that new system, I will earn a quarter of that at best, while the ones who NEEDED that nerf would be much less affected. But you are purposely playing dumb in an attempt to miss that point and to mess with me, albeit your success is none as usual.
No, it has been debated all over, it is impossible to kill anyone in a pve ship.
You are a solid idiot, mr utter nonsense. It is only “immune” when trap is set, which can be easily checked by checking the other names on 100% accurate free killboard intel, and even if it is, it’s a procurer, pvp fit, means undocking it is losing.
But you probably one of the lowsec poor trash so that losing is your way of life, you spend your miserable playtime in a frigate, and forums is the only place you attempt to have any success in.
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You literally made a strawman argument, calling you out on that isn’t a virtue signal, it’s telling you that you are an idiot with no idea how to debate an idea based on merits and facts.
Virtue signalling would be ‘oh think of the poor newbies, who can’t catch up to the vets, aren’t I a nice person speaking on their behalf’. Oh wait, who is doing that again? Even if in an utterly confused and inconsistent manner.
I see that this hinders the ability to do solo PvE farming in a capital ship. That’s not the same thing as removing the ability to own capital ships.
No, it has been debated all over, it is impossible to kill anyone in a pve ship.
Utter nonsense. First of all you’re ignoring all of the many killmails where people did exactly that: killed PvP targets in a PvE ship. Second, do you understand what a bait ship is? If they engage the bait ship they lose the ability to filament away and you can kill them with the rest of your ships.
It is only “immune” when trap is set, which can be easily checked by checking the other names on 100% accurate free killboard intel, and even if it is, it’s a procurer, pvp fit, means undocking it is losing.
How do they know if the trap is set without engaging? The only way to know is to flag everyone involved in the original trap and refuse to engage if any of them are in local (or in local in nearby systems), and if they’re using that avoidance strategy then you can easily negate the threat and resume farming simply by keeping some of those names in local 23/7 even if they aren’t active.